Are the developers aware of the incredibly slow undo and general slowness?

Not sure if this has always been an issue but it REALLY needs prioritizing. Once a scene gets to over something like 4m faces, it takes about 10 seconds to undo. In fact, lots of operations take 10 seconds. Like assigning and creating new materials.

Please please no one say (because I know someone who’s been using 3d for a year will be reading this and about to reply)… but that’s what happens with large scenes, right? NO! I’ve been using 3d software since 1999 and have never seen a slow undo once with the exception of something like Zbrush when you make a big calculation that it stores in cache and has to revert after an undo.

Like, I’m using cutting edge 2019 software and I’m having to avoid hitting undo. !??!

In earliers blender versions (to 2.79) it works well, but in the 2.8 we have got whole diffrent, new viewport, thats need to be improved by the time. I think, that developers have already known about this problem and I hope that they will fix this asap. Yeah, I’m agree with you, it’s sometime really painful.

It’s a known issue but not easy to solve, it is being tracked with this ticket

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that explains some of the weird behavior I am getting. Yesterday deleting the cube, undo did not bring the cube back but redo did.

It looks like the undo system is still a WIP. They cannot not be aware of it , its kinda obvious. But that does not mean it will be fixed any time soon.

If I remember correctly there was some kind of overhaul in the undo system which may explain why its so clunky. Blender has been a big step forward but no, I never remember Blender experiencing problems with the undo before either. It’s definitely a new thing but no worries, devs will fix it eventually.

ok. glad everyone is on board. I was fully expecting people to tell me to shut up and stop having scenes over 1 million polys etc. “what do you expect for free software” you know how cult-like people can get. But I came to Blender because of the speed of Eevee, but to then lose out on fundamental things like undo is possibly enough to make me want to switch back.

Thanks for giving link to site, where it’s tracking. :smiley:

Yes, the undo system is a joke really. 2.8 has garbage performance, even worse than 2.79, something the devs said it would be the opposite.

They really should focus on performance for the next version, because blender is unusable like this.

Now, now. I wouldn’t go that far. I am currently working on a scene with tens of millions of polygons, and performance is great. Undoing stuff takes a bit under 2 seconds at this stage (on an 11 year old machine!!!). The viewport performance for many high-poly objects is by far better than it ever was in the previous versions.

The way I keep large scenes with lots of instancing under control is by linking stuff. Linked instances do not affect the undo performance. And for complex scenes linking collections allows me to keep things manageable as well. I use the Edit Linked Library addon to quickly switch between scene parts for editing, and undoing then becomes no problem at all.

That said, not all scenes can be set up like this. And the undo system is slow in 2.8, I agree, and is in dire need of an update. I am confident that the devs will tackle this rather sooner than later.

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The developer site has various active tickets tracking performance issues, but many of them are not that easy to solve. We need to give the BF time to utilize its newly secured resources to get it done.

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could you talk more about linked instances @Herbert123 my scene has 1 x 3.5 million poly object which is reduced to about 2 million via decimation and then instances 3 more times to make 4. So is a ‘linked’ instance different?

And @Ace_Dragon what do you mean by utilize its newly secured resources? staff?

If you instanced the object using alt-D, then no: there is no real difference between linking externally, as far as I am aware.

I created an Ant landscape of ~4.2 million faces, and instancing this three times works fast (real-time, no lagging). Undoing a move takes around 1.5 seconds. Adding more instances with alt-D doesn’t slow down the undo markedly.

Even with 22 instances the undo takes about the same time to finish (slightly slower perhaps). The viewport is displaying 22 x 4.2 = 92.4 million faces, and things are smooth to work with in object mode.

Of course, entering edit mode is slow, and while the viewport remains as responsive, editing a 4.2 million faces mesh is incredibly slow to work with on my machine.

Aside from the slow Undo, mesh edit mode is the second bottleneck currently. But thinking other (commercial) 3d software will do a better job is just not true.

I opened the same Ant generated landscape in Lightwave 2019 and Cinema4d R20.

In Blender it takes ~3 seconds to translate one polygon in the z axis. Selection is as slow, indicating that selecting in Blender also loops through the entire mesh, it seems.

In Lightwave Modeler selecting is indeed much faster compared to Blender (realtime), but transforming (moving) a polygon was as slow, if not slower because finishing the move takes longer. Trying to edit this object in Lightwave is just as slow, if not worse due to the lags finishing the operation.

Cinema4D R20 fares little better compared. Pre-selection highlighting is instantaneous, but actually selecting a polygon takes almost as much time as in Blender.
And it still takes 1.6seconds to translate a polygon (proof: C4D enters wire box mode when an operation takes more than 1000ms: I changed the value to 1.6s, and only at 1.7s did it continue to display the mesh while transforming) . Twice as fast as Blender and Lightwave, but still unusable to work with this mesh.

Undoing a single polygon move is indeed much faster in C4D compared to Blender: around 2 seconds versus 11 seconds.

For kicks I entered object mode in C4D, and scaled the mesh in one axis. Very slow performance. In Blender this is butter smooth in object mode. Undoing this move in C4D took just as much time as in Blender.

An answer to modifying this mesh in Blender is Sculpt mode: use a small pull brush, and start pulling polygons in butter smooth real-time feedback. It just works as expected. And undo is instantaneous.

Lightwave? Forget that, LW doesn’t offer any sculpting tools. Or at any rate, lacks an optimized sculpt mode.

Cinema4D has sculpting tools, however. But you will be severely disappointed by its performance with this mesh: it is dead slow and lagging - in short, unusable. Blender’s sculpt mode is light-years ahead in performance.

Anyway, things are not as bad as they may seem. In my opinion with organic high-poly meshes sculpt mode is the answer for quick edits. It would be nice if Pablo could add polygon selection tools in this mode. It would de-facto solve this problem for now. (edit: the existing transformation and masking tools already allow us to work like this for the most part in the latest builds).

When working with hard surface modeling: divide and conquer. Place components as individual objects, and performance is great/good. Way better than C4D, for example, which just gives up with many objects.

This testing was done on an aging 11 year old i7 920 overclocked to 3.6Ghz, 48gb ram, and a GTX 1080.

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Things are far worse than they seem. For me. I made this video to illustrate. First clip is me assigning a texture. Second clip is me moving an object, then undoing the move.

I spin my cursor to indicate the length of the wait… https://youtu.be/JzxW5ihIkrk

It is comparable to what I am seeing in some cases, maybe slightly slower.