Blender Versions and Blender Requirements

Support Basics & Interface
1

Some software specific forums require support requests to specify
which version of the software one is using as well as the system on
which it’s being used in order to both better target the response to
the user as well as to better categorize the solutions for users looking
for answers to specific problems for their specific version of the software
as well as the environment / OS under which it’s being used (Linux, Mac,
Windows, etc).

Along those same lines, there’s also the difference between (for Blender)
hobbyist / amateur, beginning, intermediate, advanced, architectural, character,
animation modeling as well as Professional vs Amateur / Hobbyist development
environment.

Some of the models, for example, are largely environment independent and one
can expect largely the same results on almost ANY system. Others, most recently
taking into account Cycles have a higher environment threshold than others. Much
the same as an incredibly complex academic, scientific, business spreadsheet vs
a small / home business spreadsheet.

Some of them are just designed at and on professional level systems and as such
are targeted more towards those of similar backgrounds using similar systems. Others
as I mentioned are largely system independent and will likely be easily accessed, modified
and rendered across any system.

Seems to me as blender grows and as its user base diversifies, it might be worthwhile
to take into account these differences in versions, systems, levels of skill and ability to better target
users to answers relative to those considerations.

Now, as often as Blender changes, that may not be, in entirety a practical possibility.

Nonetheless, given the changes in functions as well as layouts, it’s not very useful to apply
a 2.5 or lower development tutorial to a 2.6, 2.7 or greater environment / UI.

For me, it’s just frustrating.

Maybe it’s JUST me. Maybe I’m not alone.

Also, I’m using Linux, on an 8 GB memory system - 32 bit, with a basic video card.

The additional options that either show up based on the OS or the render times based on
more complex configurations (I’ve seen 32 GB systems: laptop as well as more robust
video cards) easily lend themselves to far more complex models.

All well and good for those whose systems are designed and intended for such complex
models.

Not so useful for the rest of us.

Just throwing these concerns out there as I learn and grow in my understanding and of
the subsequent possibilities.

2

Why would you use Linux 32 bit if you have 8 GB of RAM in your system?
You’re essentially wasting 4 GB of your RAM, since any 32 bit OS has a 4 GB RAM cap.

Did I get that correctly: You want different sections in this forum with regards to the users’ hardware configuration, their level of experience, their OS, their Blender version and/or the field they use Blender for? This sounds like chaos and also might have been better suited to be asked in the “Blender Artists Website Support” section of the forum?

You’re refering to “models” several times that are too complex for some user’s hardware to work with. I somehow don’t see what this has to do with blenderartists - or is there a model download section I’m not aware of?

Could you elaborate further what models you are refering to?
And how about a draft of how the forum structure should be with the new sections you have in mind? I have some problems visualizing that.

3
  1. Looking into 8 GB memory w/32 bit linux, my understanding from what I looked at, is that using PAE allows access to
    the other 4 GB of memory:

http://www.linuxlookup.com/howto/use_more_4gb_memory_ubuntu_linux_32_bit

That’s what I’m doing. It sees all 8 GB and I believe is using it too as best I can tell when I look at my resources via
sysinfo.

  1. There’s not a model download section, but, there is an abundance of subscribers of varying levels of skill and ability
    with varying system resources and occasionally BLEND files available for download. Not just here but in discussions of
    modeling / models available elsewhere as well. I’m not bringing it up based on what’s not here as much as hoping to
    broaden the discussions about models to incorporate the systems under which they’re developed. I’ve got 8 GB on my
    system and NO GPU options. For me, the models that include GPU or exceed my system’s capabilities aren’t models I
    can learn from (hands on) as much as just marvel at the skill involved. To truly apply lessons learned in the tutorials
    I think requires comparable systems (unless one really likes system crashes).

The models I’ve seen are those that suggest using GPU (which I don’t have) or another example would be ramping up
the sampling, sophisticated particle modeling. I’m not going out on a limb here. It doesn’t take much to push system
limitations.

And it is possible to do quite a bit without pushing system limitations.

It’s not mutually incompatible for someone (like me) just learning the system to either exceed or not exceed the limits.

The challenge is knowing enough about the system (which I do not yet) to be able to push but not exceed the limits OR
to know how to consistently work within or well under the system’s limits.

Trial and error may tell me what my sampling limits are. Looking at the bottome of your post, for example, if that’s your system.

It far exceeds the limits of my system. Your capabilities at the upper limit, I can’t achieve, they exceed the capabilities of my
system. You could go out to lunch while your system renders. Me? I’ll go to bed, go to work, come home and maybe near
bed time my system MAY have finished rendering the same blend on my system ASSUMING I even get that far before my system
crashes.

  1. As far as the forum structure, I don’t see a significant change other than asking (or presenting users with some drop downs (or
    perhaps in their profile) some information about the system and version of blender they’re using. Or perhaps someone providing an answer (as is often the case) referring to the version of blender they used. Often that’s self-evident. It’s not always. I can look at
    the layout (or the date of a post) and tell that it’s likely not my entry point of using blender. Sometimes tutorials are upgraded based
    on the fact that they were created using an older version of blender. Sometimes not. Sometimes the methods and processes incorporated carry through from older versions of blender to the more current versions. Addons, for example, that work(ed) with previous versions of Blender but not (due to incompatibilities) with more current versions of Blender. At that point, I’m dead in the
    water.

If even HALF of what Andrew Price suggests in UI improvements are implemented, it would mean some adjustments in the process
for new as well as older users since it would mean a significant difference in the interface, where (and how) commands are located throughout the UI.

I’m learning a LOT as is.

I think these may (hopefully) be some reasonable considerations to help the learning process not just for me, but, in general.

4

Google ‘‘Renderfarms’’

Done,klaar,voetsek :slight_smile:

5

PAE may allow system access to RAM greater than 4GB, but processes (like Blender, e. g.) will still have 32-bit limits (3GB/process, I think on Linux). If you are handling large blend files (for example), this is still going to kill you on performance or may even cause Blender to crash.

I’m still unsure what the bottom line of your argumentation is supposed to be. That any tutorial or anyone who posts a blend file here should state the hardware it was created on and the minimum required hardware to follow the tut/use the file?

6

The software does essentially the same thing no matter the environment you are running it in. IkariShinji’s system just does it faster and with a nicer soundtrack:D. Fortunately the developers have not yet started requiring users to have a GPU to run Blender, (which IMO would be a huge mistake, although I hope I’m not inviting the loud and acerbic discussion that follows any mention of this point into your thread by saying so).

Ditto the memory issue - large memory allocations only allow larger models, not different methods. Any techniques you or any other user can learn from reading posts on this forum can be applied to any installation of Blender that runs.

7

Linus Torvalds on PAE.

If you have more than 4GB of ram use a 64 bit linux and 64 bit programs as much as possible.

8

8 GB of ram is still not used fully on a x32 bit system. So much for PAE.

Google renderfarms - didn’t know. Will look into. Still leaves the design.

But, I would guess for the level one is looking for one builds the system
commensurate with that level of design.

Case in Point - Dreamworks, or an industrial strength PC as has been
shown here at the bottom of some posts.

In the end, it’s not the machine, it’s the designer / developer - got that.

As far as my suggestions and “argumentation”. Someone once said of
Microsoft that they don’t promise to be BETTER than the competition only
as good as the competition. If the competition hadn’t figured it out, they’re
in no hurry or need to.

Seems for all the discussion, Blender, like the competition (less all the money)
will rise to its own level of competence (or incompetence) commensurate with
the competition.

I like Blender. I can afford Blender. And from what I’ve seen of UI discussions,
I don’t see it changing considerably only measurably, incrementally.

There are ways to incorporate what systems and versions are being used in Design.

Druban - noted.

IkariShinji, I don’t see myself changing your mind anytime soon. It’s not that important to
me.

I’ve seen incredibly complex models that I’ve downloaded and looked at. Some not so complex
just somewhat taxing of my system.

Now’s the opportunity for you, again, to prove me wrong:

Here’s what I’ve seen:

Downloaded it, changed some settings, system crashed. I think my system
wasn’t up to the settings I changed. I tried to ramp up the quality of the rendering,
both in size and quality. “Google Renderfarms” - got it.

Beautiful. Looks to be incredibly complex. And I believe he uses GPU for rendering.
Not available on my system.

Not the first place I came across the concept of using multiple systems for rendering,
but it gets the idea across.

Just thought I’d throw this into the mix.

Perhaps from here forward, I’ll stick to my level of ignorance - it’s what I’m good at.

Some of the recent stuff from Blender Diplom does a pretty good job of taxing my system:

http://www.wtv3d.org/t6472-blenderdiplomcom-text-dissolve-in-blender-by-gottfried-hofmann

as well as this (which is fairly straightforward - somewhat complex - and which I did complete,
took several hours to render as recommended):

Maybe NONE of these are ANY reflection of taxing, complex or difficult from YOUR perspective.

As I said, in that regard, I’ll stick to my level of ignorance.

9

Thank you for your thoughts, your insights and comments.

It helps.

10

It’s not that I need to be convinced of anything - I’m just struggling to understand what you’re suggesting. You describe symptoms. And you seem to have a certain cure for that in mind. But somehow you don’t call that cure by its name, which kinda spoils the discussion. That’s all I ever asked: What precisely are the countermeasures you would suggest to avoid users being frustrated by tutorials or scene files their machines can’t handle?

But hey, you brought that topic up - and if doesn’t matter to you, why should I want to clarify things?

It’s not my intention to prove anything - let alone you wrong. How can I make up my mind about you being right or wrong if I don’t even get your gist? :eyebrowlift:

11

IkariShinji, Druban spoke clearly to some of my underlying concerns:

“Any techniques you or any other user can learn from reading posts on this forum can be applied to any installation of Blender that runs.”

I learned about the limitations of PAE. Thank you and the others who posted here for that.

You asked for examples to clarify my meaning, I provided them. That’s not to say that my examples ACTUALLY clarify things.

I’m guessing you’ve got a LOT more experience and understanding than I do regarding blender. Hence my sarcasm about my
own ignorance (with nonetheless some truth to it).

There’s much I can do and much I can learn without approaching the limitations either of Blender or of my hardware. Beyond that,
until expertise and complexity add to the details of my Blender models and begin to truly push the limits, most of my points are moot.

Still, as there are software and hardware requirements not just at the lower levels of operation, but also at the optimum and (task preferred - Engineering, Medical, CAD, Professional Graphics Design and Modeling, Professional Audio / Video Production), much as professional photographers often detail the specifications of the equipment / layouts they use, I still contend, it’s useful knowing, if one aspires to that level WHAT is involved in the process. That doesn’t impress me as unreasonable, incomprehensible, or particularly difficult to achieve.

Maybe I need to take a closer look at the forums on finished projects and works in progress.

Maybe the specific answers I’m interested in are there.

In general, if I want to do professional animation, modeling, architecture, video, etc - what are the tools of the trade? What are they relative to BLENDER?

So far, I’m a hobbyist. At some point, hopefully, I’ll be able to expand beyond “hobbyist”.

I’d be happy just to get to the point where so many here and elsewhere who, having seen their work and their process, I have nothing but HIGH regard for, I could be in the same ballpark. It’s going to take some considerable time and effort.

I’m not looking for users to give up company secrets, but, for example, if someone’s taking studio photos with a Hasselblad camera, with a specific filter, specific lighting layout, specific development techniques - it’s useful to know should I (or anyone else, aspire to similar results). No one’s obligated to.

But, at least part of the point here is to LEARN.

Wouldn’t that be helpful?

I think so.

It makes sense.

Would it be HARD to do? No. Should it be REQUIRED? No.

Would it be helpful?

Immensely - my opinion.

The video above:

“Blender 3D OpenGL Transparency & DOF Particles (Tutorial)”

is just one of numerous, wonderful examples of someone not only
creating something extraordinary but also going in depth about their
process.

I’m not suggesting EVERYONE should do the same, but, every little
bit, that helps shed some light, some insight, helps me, helps all of
us here for the purpose of getting BETTER.

It’s not an argument. It’s my opinion. It’s my suggestion.

I’d like to think there’s SOME merit to it. And that, without too much
effort, they are achievable goals.

Ok. I’ll shut up now.

12

I would like to think we could help you with what you are trying to achieve. But you have to start first. Then ask us a question about how to do something.

The Governor said, “There is a piece of stone in my house. Sometimes it stands up and sometimes it lies down. Now, can it be carved into the image of Buddha?”
“Yes, it is possible,” answered the Master. "
But it is impossible to do so?" countered the Governor.
“It is impossible! It is impossible!” exclaimed the Master.