I’ll probably let them as they are for now, but I’d love to get feedback on how they could be improved and some things to test in future works, because I plan to keep doing these with different subject matters and trying to grow slowly in complexity as I get more confident.
At some point I’ll go back to 3D which is my main goal, but I got the feeling that I need to go 2D to be able to experiment faster and not be bothered by the technical side.
Even if my main question is about composition, I’m interested in whatever idea / critique these might inspire you. Like for instance I get the feeling that these are supposed to be done quickly but I end up spending hours on each frame. Any tips to be able to iterate faster, or that’s something I’ll get to with time ?
Hey,
I really think that they all read quite well, most especially the focal point of each composition is outright and well established. I also love how well you’re working with secondary objects in the composition to establish scale and depth.
In my opinion, I think the structure in the third image follows the general flow of the hills too much that it might almost act as just another secondary object enforcing the leading line and focal point. I think some subtle break ups of the structure to enhance it’s overall silhouette and make it more conspicuous might make it more of the focal point, probably just enhancing the silhouette by making a portion of it slightly exaggerated?
I’d love to know what you think.
Very good point for the third thumbnail ! Introducing more contrast in shapes and flow in that main hill might help to make it stands out more.
Since I stopped working on these I start to see little things that I’d like to try so I might make a new pass to test all that. That also sparks some ideas for new things so maybe it’s time to move on toward the next batch … I’ll let that rest a bit anyway to get a fresh eye.
Thank you very much !
Also, just a quick follow up to what I said. Check out his work I’ve linked his Instagram below, he does a lot of value studies and I’m sure you might pick up a thing or two from his work.
A lot of artists who do thumbnails are doing quite a few of the same subject, the subject they intend to take to a final image. You’ve got three castle shots here but maybe do a couple more castle shots with different composition. And as for time, they could be quite a bit less detailed. Just an overall idea.
Thanks a lot for the advice !
Yeah my goal was to practice thumbnails and composition. I made a few others but they were bad.
I also did several iterations on each of these, and frankly I wished I could do more of them given the time I spend
About the details, in fact I have a hard time to make something that works without detailing.
Like, adding details also helps me to refine the proportions, composition and add balance. Since I’m lacking drawing practice.
But I get that’s not the way to go,I left aside these exercises but I plan to get back at them with a slightly different approach and trying to be more rough on the overall !
I didn’t completely figured out how I’ll do , but I’ll keep trying !
Thanks ! Still a lot to catch up on that subject that I neglected for such a long time,
But its super interesting and there is a kind of “inception” thing going on. You compose the frame, but the individual elements in the image are driven by the same rules, so once you start to understand all that better, it helps in many areas. Like texturing for instance, some compositional rules apply there too !
But I think if I had a subject matter just a little bit more complex or more elements in the image I would have totally screwed it up, so I played safe in the beginning to stay motivated and learn step by step !
If you want to get faster, limit yourself and do more or spent less time.
Do one in 30 minutes and cut the details, they don’t have to be so precise - more sketchy is fine.
Here is another tip that is a little weird, but maybe it might help:
Do one of these in the evening when you’re already a little tired or in the morning after waking up.
This is meant to sideline your conscious judgement, you want to do one of these without so much conscious effort - just let it flow. Like the surrealist did - automatic painting/drawing.
Or do one while watching a movie - see if your conscious judgement is slowing you down.
You don’t need to push yourself much further with these exercises - you’re already more than qualified. I’ve seen much worse works from people who call themselves “professionals”.
Maybe increase the difficulty by adding color and do composition and color in the same exercise.
Or since you now know the rules, deliberately break them.
You can also do it in 2.5D, paint rough shapes with grease pencil, then you can move them around and you can move the camera around, which gives you the opportunity to do composition in motion.
Like from a close-up framing to a wide framing - 2 or more compositions in one shot.
I never did these exercises, I learnt all of this from doing photography and drawings, so for me its purely driven by instinct. Then I consciously spent some time dissecting the composition, framing and staging of many famous movie directors.
I’d recommend Kubrick, Spielberg and Kurosawa. They are the kings IMHO.
Maybe you are like me and learn easily just by observing others.
Take a look at this YT channel : https://www.youtube.com/@StudioBinder/search?query=composition
Thanks a bunch ! That means a lot !
I think I managed on these ones because I pick a simple subject and I spend a lot of time iterating on the frames , but I soon as I try to tackle more complex subject things get messy very quickly.
But probably I should try to work more on quantity rather than quality for a while as you suggested !
Playing with grease pencil sound like an awesome idea too, and will help with perspective which I’d like to play more with .
I think on these ones I tried to kill two birds with one stone, that is studying composition and try to practice drawing, and once things get a bit more complex I tend to fail both. Playing more with 3D ( which is the end goal anyway) right from the start might help to focus purely on composition.
That’s interesting ! I think I was relying on instinct a lot but recently working with illustrators really showed me how much theory and science we can use to build a frame. I really like when things work or not for a reason, and it’s quite fascinating how much changing little details can make our eyes follow a completely different path in the image. But sure there is a balance between theory and instinct, and at the end of the day composition is just another tool that we can use or not.
Yes ! I have also a notebook where I draw small thumbnails of shots from series and film I’m watching. This is also helping a lot ! And these masters are indeed unlimited source of inspiration !
The youtube channel looks amazing too !
That’s super cool because I let all that aside for a while since I drawn these but recently I’m back at working composition (in 3D). Seeing your message really give me a great motivational boost and good ideas to try out !
Did you learn something from it (like how not to approach things)?
I think failing is good, I always learn a lot from it.
To be honest, I superficially tried it, but found it convoluted and confusing - and I gave up
But i have an excuse - I haven’t really found a use case.
Did you do that on purpose or did it just happened?
Yes this is ultimately a good experience and I learned a lot by making mistakes ( definitely the hardest and the best way to learn ). But that lead me to a lot of questions about is this the good way, and I wanted to get some feedback and advices too !
Haha yeah it’s not as easy as a drawing app for sure, but I see so much cool uses of it I’m pretty sure it’s worth the annoyance and even more just like blender we might dig it in the end !
Hahhaa unfortunately it just happened Thanks a lot I think I would have totally missed that …
On this one I didn’t kept all the steps,
but this is how I worked on another :
The process was more like doing something without thinking too much and trying to fix things sometime consciously sometime instinctively. Iterating helped me a lot to analyse the frame and find out why things work or not.
If I goes back to it I’ll probably try to work on the bare bones of the composition in a very schematic way, and then see how much I want to go into details. But I’ll try also to do what you suggested and try to make more a automated writing approach, sounds very interesting too !
I missed these when you posted them they are really good.
It is funny but that first one immediately struck me as “I like that one the best”, then scrolling down the posts I see that golden ratio thingy. It is probably fortunate that you did not do it on purpose because that means you have a “feel” it.
Sorry but for me the second one is falling on top of me, like I am tilting my head and shielding with my left hand!
The third, not sure, for me the building is well placed on the left but I would have put it further back in the third or fourth tone/hill level.
My second favourite has to be the trees.
The fifth I find the last two lighter tones a bit distracting as if I have to scrutinize them to see what is going on.
The last is masterpiece of modern art! (just joking)
These are just my thoughts as an observer, they are really interesting and this is something I should try to do, I desperately need to take composition into account.
Did you do any more? Colour them with basic tones?
… I’ll let that rest a bit anyway to get a fresh eye.
