Cycles Development Updates


(Ace Dragon) #746

Is not having your pet feature officially in Blender worth holding a grudge over?

Continually banging on it and attacking the devs. until the desired result is achieved could only result in a locked thread or someone getting banned, as it’s not going to happen due to already stated reasons.


With that out of the way, perhaps there is a sampling algorithm out there that is optimized for usage with a denoiser at the cost of aesthetics (but resulting in higher quality). That could serve as a massive optimization and help people forget about the scrambling patch.


#747

please, judge for yourself
everyone’s right to it’s own opinion - don’t like it? :no_mouth: no waste

perhaps, bs talks… walk & bring some worthy papers, examples, demos…

yes, it could fit in well and practice would show, if and which of here mangled hypothesis is closer to being – possible reality or probably dead… it’s blender experimental ffs and there’s still time before the total lock down

so act now - let us witness & experience it together!
but just stop going on with: “Look, i am your developer…”

& i are light cache ready baboon wanna-be-an-artist, blenderartist.org ! :partying_face: smell my finger :vampire: be happy?

cuz i am more than happy user wishing to share this happiness with all, everyone willing & able


(Ace Dragon) #748

It’s okay to have an opinion, but it’s a different thing to continually try to make a general thread into one that’s about your opinion.

A new thread making the case for the scrambling feature can be made. Otherwise, it will bury any attempt to draw attention to the newest commits.


(LordOdin) #749

We probably wouldn’t use blender in our productions without scrambling and dithered sobol. It would be easier to just use redshift. Blender is losing out on potential studios using cycles because other render engines consider how expensive rendering is. TBH cycles is going to die if they don’t add rtx anyways. Octane Arnold and renderman have already have working results. Considering you can get nearly 100GB of vram with nvlink and quadros Cycles will be the new blender internal of the industry which is pretty funny considering I’m a cycles fanboy. I Constantly have to convince people not to switch to big name render engines. And I can easily convince them when I show them the results I can get with our build. But after I show them and convince them I have to tell them “eh well you can’t actually download blender and do this out of the box”

With rtx there is much more speed to gain and they should focus on getting that to work but still scrambling should be able to work with it giving an even bigger increase in performance


(Blended_Blue) #750

I too hope RTX support gets rolled into the mainstream application soon. I hear RTX support is workable but difficult/shotty at the moment.

I would purchase 4x RTX 2080 ti’s tomorrow if I knew NVLink was a real possibility.

PLEASE Blender devs, Focus on RTX + NVLink integration!


(Ace Dragon) #751

Unfortunately, the Blender Foundation has arguably been under-prioritizing overall performance and speed since the 2.3x series (which is when I started to use it 14 years ago). It hasn’t become a big deal until the 2.8 viewport recode and the dawn of Eevee. One also needs to keep in mind that from my experience, questionable and confusing priorities is more or less a trademark of FOSS in general (which is not as evident as it used to be, but it’s still there).

Onto the general issue of performance, considering where the tech. is headed, there could end up being a situation where Cycles and Eevee see the heavy cross-pollination of technologies or even a full-on merge (though the latter is unlikely unless Eevee can be relicensed under the Apache 2).


Now I would fully back your quest to see your favorite patches in master providing Lukas can solve the bias issues with more extreme values (which can take a very long time to clear up). Since your posts seem to indicate a claim of knowing more on how pathtracing should be done than Brecht and Lukas, why not submit a patch with the issues resolved?


(Charlie) #752

I’m pretty sure than Brecht said during the developer stream at the conference that he was hoping to focus more on Cycles soon. I think it is frustrating when code is not committed which seems to be relatively simple such as the scrambling distance but the patch you linked to is easily applied. I’m guessing this is more of an issue if you are hoping to send files off to render farms etc. It should also be noted that P366 hasn’t actually been submitted for code review!


(ManuelGrad) #753

The only argument to not include it is that the user can introduce artifacts and get undesired results … what the hell? Then please remove 95% of the options because the user can fuck up there too.
Clamping, Samples, Caustics, Bounces, Pixel filter width … if the user just randomly changes stuff there he will get undesired results too, is this reason enough to remove those settings?

Blender is a software for professionals so don’t treat them like babys!


(Piotr Adamowicz) #754

I know this is a stupid question in the midst of algorithms and patches and serious things, but -

Does anybody know where the cycles Render button has gone in 2.8? I can’t find it anywhere. :upside_down_face:


(Lsscpp) #755

It’s not there anymore, you have to go on the top “render” menu


#756

Again, judgement based on your personal opinion… wise would be to just let it go, let decision makers make their choice.

@Blended_Blue
IMO, RTX platform as it is now, just looks too closed & too risky to invest in… too early, since all we’ve seen is a bubble. Already, all around, there are simply many, many problems rising just with it’s AI denoiser.


For starters, optimizing what is predictable & reliable appears a difficult task. ppl just get too biased, too soon. That is why i suggested “trial en mass” (get it in master, observe and decide) - since human by nature is also very unpredictable & unreliable (but vastly superior when using intelligence) - only real experience, life reveals the truth.

With elephants over Alps.


#757

are there any tutorials/docs on how to use it available ?


(English is not my native language) #758

You see if what I wrote here helps you at least to start:


(Ace Dragon) #759

Back on the subject of actual commits, Lukas Stockner has been returning to subjects related to denoising and you can now generate the passes without actually using the denoiser.
https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2018-October/115572.html

It might seem useless at first glance, but this is actually a needed feature for animation denoising.


This goes hand in hand with the ability to have the original noisy image as a pass by default (so as to try to fix artifacts like black pixels in highlights using compositing nodes).
https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2018-October/115512.html

Another thing Lukas worked on meanwhile is improving the result of the artifact-free bumpmapping committed earlier this year.
https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/2018-October/115489.html


(Lsscpp) #760

Great!
thx Lukas!


(drgci) #761

lukas is in the fire mode!!!
many thanks


(lacilaci86) #762

Lots of interesting topics, but I wonder is there something like lightcaching in the plans for cycles? Or is it considered forbidden technology?


#763

IIRC, it was mentioned as planned, but i lost sight of it.


#764

Thanks a lot, is not so easy to figure it out alone


(Metin Seven) #765

I just read this interesting thread about microfacet roughness. I don’t know if this has already been discussed here, but it’d be great if this could be implemented in the Cycles Principled shader.