Dejavu?

General Forums Blender and CG Discussions
#1

I just downloaded Blender 2.53 beta and very much dislike what’s been done with the UI :no:. Why the massive change? It’s too steep a learning curve. I’m sure many would disagree but I felt compelled to give my opinion and this seemed like the best place on the forum to do it.

Very grateful for Blender as a whole but I just wish the overhauls could be done without so much change to the UI. I’ve invested so many hours in learning what I know about Blender (and still only scratched the surface) and it feels like I have to learn a whole new program just to be able to benefit from the new fixes and systems.

Feels a bit like what Microsoft did when they went from XP to Vista.

Clock analogy: Sure, make the cogs and wheels work better, but don’t make us learn how to tell the time all over again huh.

#2

You invested many hours into learning blender 2.4 UI, right?
Now Imagine other new users. They will invest LESS hours learning the 2.5 UI then you. Thanks to the new - more logical, easier, and awesome new GUI. You are not the center of the world, there are many new users to come. Other aspects of the UI didn’t change much, but i hope they will, to make the learning curve even smaller for new users.

#3

If you just set aside your bias, you’ll have no problem learning the new UI. Believe me it is easier to find things compared to the old UI.

But if you don’t like to switch now, no one is stopping you from using Blender 2.49b. It is still a great software.

#4

If you master Blender before 2.53, you should easily make the transition for the 2.5 series. It’s not that hard for someone with experience, it’s harder for someone with no experience at all.

#5


how about looking around for more then 5 mins and you might realise that they are not all that different

#6

I agree with FreeMind. Although I too spent a lot of time on 2.4x UI. Only thing I am getting annoyed with is the whole space menu thing!

#7

There are still improvements to make. I too am sure there are things about 2.49 which should be in 2.5x and are missing, such as the zooming of the panels, which I don’t seem to manipulate that well in 2.5x but I believe with time all this will be fixed. I read somewhere that Blender Foundation is making sure the transition from 2.49 to 2.5x is lossless, so this is one of their most important goals. But I too agree with temujin143, 2.49 is a great software! No one is obliged to use 2.5x and the Blender Foundation has an extraordinary policy on this, because they make every version accessible to everyone, not like other developers out there.

#8

I find spacebar menu missing too.
Let’s just hope that the controls will be reconsidered.
I mean, every software uses Ctrl-F to find things, so it may as well be that way in blender too.

I imagine it this way, that we should get the spacebar menu appear when clicking the right mouse button.
And it should have like every main control there is grouped in submenus or something like that…

#9

That seems all very subjective, that’s way Blender 2.5x now have the possibility to customize everything. Hit CTRL+ALT+U to access the Preferences window. By the way, the floating menu to add objects is now SHIFT+A, the SPACE key allows to do a search for any function, very handy.

#10

i feel 2.5 series much more comfortable, and i love the “proffessional look” too :wink:
It looks like people needs to lose that “fear of UIs” thing and keep-the-ass-on-the-chair learning what they want and need to learn.

#11

Greatly put by meschoyez, one needs to choose what to learn and dedicate to learn it. Fear comes up in several stages when learning a 3D software. Jumping from the interface to modeling, from modeling to texturing, from textures to lighting and rigging. It is a long process and requires study and patience.

#12

^^^+1 for agreement. I don’t understand the ‘every other software’ does such and such argument. So what? Thank goodness that Python does things differently from C, that Linux isn’t Windows, and Blender isn’t Max. Lots of other software costs hundreds of dollars too; should Blender emulate that?

#13

I’m not saying that Blender must copy max, no. I dislike max to be honest.
What I am trying to say is, there are certain standards on how hotkeys work.
You wouldn’t like blender to have “Q” for undo instead of “Ctrl+Z” now would you?
Ctrl+Z is a standard through out ALL software, and replacing it with something weird like “Q” would make no sense at all. See what i mean?

Same goes for ‘Left click’ to select, ‘Ctrl-F’ to find stuff, ‘Alt’ to remove from selection, and a lot of other hotkeys.

Now, if blender had a different hotkey for Undo, that’s something extra that a new user has to learn. Which makes the learning curve more steep. And if it’s Ctrl+Z you simply know that from the get go even if you never used any 3D software before.

That’s why, for example, “Left click - cursor, Right click - select” is a bad design decision. And to think that the Cursor is very rarely used in comparison, so it simply shouldn’t be on the main button of the computer. And even further, it argues with tablets. Who would like to put a rarely used cursor when pointing with a pen?
That’s like three arguments against right click select right there for ya. ^

Convinced?

#14

Right-click select is easier on my hand and arm, and I’d personally find it impossible to model or navigate 3D space without the “red thingy”. Whatever. <shrug>

Now that hotkeys are user-definable, you could set up a template with your preferences and share it. That would be an interesting experiment. Who knows, maybe new users would flock to it.

#15

They wouldn’t, because most users will try their best to learn the defaults.
That’s why its best to polish out the defaults. We can still leave “Blender classic” template as an option for those that do not want to relearn.

I don’t see how Right click can be more comfortable then Left click, unless you used blender for a while and it’s in your muscle memory. That seems to be your case, right? To bad this comfort does not come right after you turn on blender for the first time.

The first thing that a new user does when opens a 3D app for the first time is left clicking on the 3D view, expecting to select stuff. The cursor confuses the crap out of new users. They don’t know what that thing is. And they don’t know how a selected object looks like, which just adds to the confusion. Now, if Left click was default for select, they would know right away that this is selection. pow learning curve got pwned.

To be honest, i never actually used the Cursor. I see where it could be useful, but when modeling characters and rendering 2D sprites (Thats what I did mostly in blender ever since i started) I never found any need for the cursor. Weird huh?

#16

I find this hard to believe, that cross hair cursor is not important enough to have a whole mouse button devoted to it. But I am truly curious what would you find impossible to model and how do you navigate 3d space with it. I am also curious as to how right click select is easier on you arm and hand outside of Blender I know of no other app that uses right click select, do you only use Blender on your computer?

I am not by the way arguing for a change in any of the blender defaults because frankly I feel anyone not bothered to change and customize a program so that it works for them has only themselves to blame. My defaults are LMB select, Turntable, confirm on release… very un-blender in a way and modelling tools are mapped to keyboard keys on my left hand

#17

The 3D Cursor is very important, but I agree about a few aligning issues that could be improved, although there’s always the Snap option.

Learning the defaults in Blender can be compared to learning the defaults in Zbrush. Both are very specific in the way they allow the user to interact with. I too never understood why Blender or Zbrush work like this, but I got over and got used to.

#18

I also got used to them. And the only thing i change is turntable.
But why would anyone have to get used to weirdness?
If the controls will ever get normalised, I would be happy to relearn.

#19

Trackball is good for showing a project to someone in Blender. Maybe more suitable for viewing but not so good for working I think. But yes, there a number of things that don’t matter to me at all and I never use them. But it’s good to have many options, it proves Blender is suitable for all, no matter how weird people can get, everyone can get happy. To me a good policy is what Blender has been doing: they make possible to configure a great number of things.

#20

I would big to differ. It is useful on rare occasions but ‘very important’ I wouldn’t say that about that cursor. I would prefer having the add menu or a full on radial menu mapped to a mouse button. Selecting, orbiting, panning etc are important and useful functions because your repeat them often. that cross hair cursor is only useful when using the cursor snap menu