[Dev] Anyone still using Singletexture materials?

I think you should remove single-texture for sure, never really saw the point of using it over multi-texture. I think getting rid of multi-texture will anger some users, but if it really helps development, then I think you should do it.

+1 for removing just single texture mode. Its inevitable that in 5+ years, computers and processors will be so inexpensive that almost anyone will be able to have a computer that can handle basic GLSL shading graphics. I remember first starting out with Blender(3 1/2) years ago using multitexture mode often(I had a Compaq Presario C500 laptop). But that computer is long gone.

In with the new, out with the old! :wink:

+1 to getting rid of both single and multi-texture modes

Even the lowest end GPU’s sold these days should support GLSL, it doesn’t cost that much to get a card that supports it and it may even help speed up some other parts of Blender.

A long time ago, I had an old Pentium D with a GeForce 7300 LE GPU (one of the lowest end of the Nvidia 7xxx series), that was in Blender 2.48 six years ago and even that was able to run GLSL graphics. I’d say if you’re still going to try to run Blender on ten year old hardware, then you’re restricting yourself as the scenes you are able to build would be somewhat limited in detail for both the BGE and rendering.

As for applying GLSL effects in Multi-Texture, I would go more the route of emulating one or two of the more popular multi-texture abilities in GLSL, doing it the other way might end up creating a certain level of obfuscation since the differences won’t be as clear in the code.

Good point here.

Personally, i will never try a game without reasonable graphic. And i will never continue playing a good graphic game which doesn’t have reasonable gameplay. This two, reasonable graphic and gameplay, must always come together. For me, lack of either one is considered a bad game (no matter how you convince me, i’ll never want to torture myself:D). So, the point here is that, if you’re gonna sell your game you need to at least ‘pretty’ it to attract buyers.

However, good graphic is really a very subjective term. A lot of AAA games have ‘fancy’ graphic but that may not account for good graphic.

All in all, if simple code cause less bugs, then go for it. And i never use single-textured mode.

I use GLSL, and see no reason not to get rid of single texture. A lot of people have suggested getting rid of both, but that was never the question. Remember, Haidme is developing Krum in Multitexture, and I think most of us would like to see him finish it. Of course people can always use older versions of Blender, but for now, I think Multi-texture still has a place.

Kick single texture to the curb.

@3dmedieval Removing multitexture wouldn’t affect Haidme at all. He’s developing Krum in an ancient version of Blender (I believe 2.46).

In fact, this argument could probably extend to the rest of the users wanting to hold on to multitexture. The older versions are always available if you absolutely must develop in multitexture.

As far as I’m concerned, single texture could be removed. If someone’s really that serious about making a game, they should upgrade anyway, since I can hardly believe that type of hardware is still capable of running. The same goes for OpenGL, IMO; 2.0 was released in 2004 and we’re still on 1.x. It just seems like we’re trying too hard to support everything when we realistically can’t or shouldn’t. Faster and easier development is just as good of a reason as any to spend $40 on hardware.

EDIT: A good example of this is my ooold, old toughbook. AMD Mobility Radeon 9600 and a Pentium M. It has an awful time with Blender and I avoid using it for any graphics work whenever possible. Even this hardware supports OGL 2.0 and GLSL, and it’s 10 years old.

Speaking of old hardware, I have a Sony Vaio laptop from 2001 with an ATi Mobility Radeon 7500C with 32MB. At the time, that was top of the line. I recently tried to run Blender on it, it eventually crashes. It still runs Windows XP because Windows 7 is not feasible. It can run Linux though :stuck_out_tongue:

I agree with SolarLune. Deprecating the older modes will help development by focusing on GLSL and streamlining the BGE, which will make Blender more robust and attractive. This is a highly subjective opinion, but I think it is the hope of some open-source programs, such as Blender, to be commercially developed as this allows the program to develop even faster (I guess the “hope” of a program is tied to its utility). Based on that post on the Blender dev blog about changes to the BGE, even Tom had hopes for the BGE to be commercially used. Generally, as open-source programs grow they become more attractive to commercial development. Linux was supposed to be “nothing big” :wink:

Commercial software developers would never focus on 10 year old hardware outside of niche reasons; neither should the BGE. The BGE is used by less-capable computers, but that may be holding the BGE back. The single-texture and multitexture modes are quickly becoming obsolete and inherently end-of-life; there is no reason to invest limited development time on it.

What I mean is even if a multitexture-based BGE game became commercial, it would eventually move over to GLSL. The main advantage I see with sticking to multitexture would be retaining compatability with non-GLSL users, but even so, it might be questionable as to whether the rest of the computer specs such as RAM, CPU speed, etc. would handle the game. Furthermore, anyone who considers themselves a gamer will have a GLSL-capable card. Also, commercial game development would most likely target those groups, so it makes sense all-around to go GLSL.

If you wanted to get serious with any sort of game/graphics development, GLSL is where it’s at. Supporting the older modes is counterproductive and GLSL should be encouraged. The BGE tends to be used more by hobbyists, but I’m sure they would love to work with the latest and greatest tools. Not only that, it helps to be closer to the industry standards. If it is deprecated, there will be incompatibility, but at the same time it will compel users to upgrade and spur BGE development by putting the focus on more forward technology.

As previously mentioned, GLSL-capable graphics cards are relatively affordable and the desktop market is stagnating which means over time it will become more widespread. With mobile on the rise, this means OpenGL ES will become more relevant (GLSL and GLSL ES can be quite different but either way it would be a good habit to get into). Of course, the question is whether we’ve reached the tipping point - I believe we have.

Please remove both, I’m trying to be a BGE developer, and it would be nice to work with a clean code.

There is 1 person on my team, who is working on ancient hardware,

I am inclined to remove both and stick with GSL as it is fastest and most compatible… on new GPU’s

Yep, I’m in favour getting rid of single and multi texture. Never used them and never will.

i think we have come to a point now, that if your hardware can’t run GLSL, then you are way behind the curve in terms of technology, and blenders game engine shouldn’t have to support hardware that old. If you are running old hardware then you have lots of older versions of blender to choose from and begin your development there.

If having only GLSL support would mean a cleaner code base, then I am all in favour for that. Maybe that is something that can brought up for discussion when Moguri has removed singletexture.

Why use textures at all ? What the heck, why keep supporting color, please, my 30-year old monitor is only monochrome!

Seriously, I can see people in less-developed parts of the world only having access to old hardware, but hey, those machines are better supported by old Blender, especially pre-2.5 is a lot easier on the machine/OS specs. And that support will never go, the old downloads aint going nowhere.
And if you want retro look just emulate it with more simple GLSL shaders, some people have this misconception about GLSL always being fancy? GLSL does all.

BGE can be a contender! But please, kick out the backward code…

I think a code cleanup for BGE without multitexture and singletexture could be a great thing to do anyway.
10 years old is a lot of time for support a graphic technology. it’s enough.

Get rid of single and multitexture, they are wasting prime panel space.

I agree also with removing them both at least the single texture mode. Its of course sad that people wont be able to use glsl on there machines and non upgradable laptops, but toasters cant be supported forever :stuck_out_tongue: my gpu that came out in 2006 cost me 50 quid at the time supports glsl and I never came across a custom shader that wouldn’t run on it.

if someone really needs glsl a slow gpu with glsl support is easy and cheap to source and if they want something similar to multi-texture they can just disable lights and shaders in the render panel to get it looking like multi-texture with good performance on the cheap gpus.

One year ago, I was at school. The only computers I had access to were two laptops, neither had GLSL. I do think at least one non-GLSL render version is good, and actually, Multitexture is rather powerful, you have to bake lightmaps in GLSL too…

Is it possible to get rid of single texture mode and keep the per-vertex lighting in multi-texture?
dynamic lighting only works in multi-texture if I use the face textures check box in the material, otherwise the object is unshaded.

Will this still work if single texture is removed?

Baked lighting is great, but doesn’t work well with random terrain.

My main reason for using non-GLSL modes is that they can be much faster on old graphics cards. Even if you computer does support GLSL it may not do so as easily as a new one.

Talking about democracy!

+1 for removing singletexture mode

I don’t use single texture mode, but I do use multi-texture settings for my bug reports so things can be tested quickly.
Also, if we get rid of multi-texture, I would hope that GLSL wouldn’t fall short like it has in this bug: https://projects.blender.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=36668&group_id=9&atid=306
Hopefully that would be fixed before we loose the only shading mode that can render material animations.

Edit: The above bug was an oversight on my part, there was no indication that GLSL required a different set-up to do this.