Dragon Project


(Gjevon) #1

Hi to all,

this is my first bigger project in Blender. It took me quite a long time to fit with the UI, but now i want to finish a bigger project, it sucks to do tutorials, so i decided to start something. I’m not quite really experienced when it comes to modelling, so i’d be happy for all tips and hints. Espacially how to give the dragon this creepy, ancient look that is necessary for an dragon.

Okay its a bit early at this point of time, i just spent a few hours of work and its just the beginning, but your opinions would interest me much. Besides I don’t have any critics, and this is important i guess.

So here comes the first picture.

Excuse my bad english, i haven’t spoken or written for a long time now.

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(Odjin) #2

i don’t know how you can give him an ‘ancient creepy look’ as that doesn’t belong to a dragon but one thing that you should check out is looking at skulls of a dinosaur, not that important which one. the jaw-joint looks horrible. he can impossibly close the mouth like that. i know it’s early but fixing the outside-shape of a model early is easier than later.

furthermore the neck is too thin where it meets the head. imagine the back of the mouth has to feed into the neck alike that if he swallows something it doesn’t get stuck there. hence at the head join point the neck has to be thicker and can then narrow a bit. often done is a little bulging there to indicate this connection.

EDIT: btw… why do newcomers select often a dragon-like thingy as their first project? a good dragon is one of the most difficult things besides a good car model or liquid model.


(Gjevon) #3

Hm thanks for your hints,

i’ll study skull schemes. I think i’ve choosen a Dragon, because i’ve always been fasinated by these creatures, don’t know why others choose them.

And i’ve wanted to do something difficult, becuase it’s my way of learning things, i am often bored of problems that can be solved easy, i won’t finish them if it takes a small amount of time.

Hm, i think ill post other parts of the modell tommorow, would be great if you could comment them.

Thanks alot.


(Odjin) #4

allowed myself to make quickly a small screenshot of my dragon to make my comment a bit more understandable. the jaw-bone is a bit far front-side but for what i need it that’s enough. thinking about how an armature operates on a mesh during modelling helps a lot. you can use the 3d-cursor to simulate bones and rotate jaw vertices to see if it works. this way you can also make the teeth ‘grasp’ into each other correctly before you rig the entire thing. the throat-bulge is not that pronounced here but i hope you get the idea i try to send over.
http://rptd.dnsalias.net/misc/head_side.png

let’s see how your one turns out.


(Gjevon) #5

Hi again,
i’ve think i understand your explanation. At this moment i’m not sure, if my expierence is enough to animate the Model, i havent quite taken a look at animation tools if i’m honest. At first the whole thing should get an still image, with an cave environment. I thing its a long way for me to get this thing animated. At first it is a trial to finish the modell in a way, i could be proud about myself.
However thanks a lot for the tips.

Have changed the model a bit, its attached as image.

The eyes arent integrated.

In detail i’ve modified the nostrils, the jaw and the neck sits higher now and is wider as you proposed.

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(Odjin) #6

comes along better. the head is still too large for the neck (or the neck to small for the head). this has to do with physics. from the body where the support for the head starts up to the attachment point of the head on the neck is usually a rather long distance. this requires muscles proportional to the size of the head.

now there are two possibilities. either you would like to have a heavy and massive head then you need a much thicker neck which has a less flexible appearance with pronounced muscles. this is more what people use to give it a monstrous look (a schwarzenegger look how i call it).

the other possibility is what i did making the head small and lightweight resulting in the neck beeing rather small and much more flexible without pronounced muscles. is used to give it more a swift and agile look kinda like a velociraptor, hence a stealthy and earie predator.


(Gjevon) #7

Hi,

i think only taking physical into account could be wrong.
Please correct me, but for me a dragon is something mythical something that stands outside of usual definitions espacially physical possibilities.

There haven’t been a proof of any species that was capable to spit out fire.

But don’t get me wrong your opinion is really welcome, and seriously study every suggestion. But i even found some Dinosaurs that would fit the model in terms of neck cross-section and skull size, allthough they are not all carnivore.

But nevertheless the neck will get thicker and shorter as it may seem on the first pictures, becauce i merely began with modelling the torso. And it should definately get this monstrous look.

And here is a second part of the model, the claws.

Thanks for your support so far

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(Odjin) #8

the physics part is not totally off. if we look at creatures (no matter if an existing one or not) we quickly assosciate it or compare it with creatures we know very well, hence exist around us. hence we know how certain things look like. if this matches to a certain degree you feel ‘at home’ with the creature and it has a great feeling on you. otherwise it feels too ‘spaced off’ (how german kiddies call it sometimes). this can be used as a special gimmick if done correctly but is very difficult.

mostly all creatues made up take inspiration from existing ones and extend it. it is usually easier to take an existing shape and alter it into the direction you want than otherwise.

but depends in the end on the aim of your project.

about the claw there is one thing. what exactly is the ‘skin flap’ on the heel for? or is this actually the heel? what exactly are you aiming for, more a bird like foot used on eastern dragons or more a lizard like foot more used in western representations?


(Gjevon) #9

Hi,

i made two more pictures out of different angles, maybe the perspective distortion was to large in the first pictures, they aren’t that high in resolution because they are just screenrenders.

Hm, i guess it shouldn’t get an eastern look. After reading your comment, i think i’ll search for some material on dragons and compare the claws to living reptils.

After hours now, i think my biggest failure was to just start modelling and working on it without any form of preparation just out of a mood.

It needed your comments to get me thinking about a really detailed end result.

Hm but from now it i’ll take more time for preparation.

The screens are attached.

By the way is there a special hint covering the substitution of triangle-faces ? They are making more and more problems.

Thanks for your help.

P.s.
Now i think I totally got what you meant with the whole Physics, should end up in something believeable more than in something absolute correct.
Am i right?
Sorry as i said in the introduction it is my first big organic modelling project, am quite not experienced.

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(Gjevon) #10

Hi there,

i just tested with the first experimental torso parts and connected the legs and feet. I must admit semms quite not well. It’s too much of an dog i guess.
Or maybe a Triceratops. Hm just wanted to keep it updated. I’ll try some other things. Has anyone got a special tip for modelling the wings ?
Tried different things, but everthing wing approach looked terrible.

Thanks

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(Odjin) #11

maybe you should post once the wireframe of the model. it looks very edgy and not that organic, typicall sub-division problem if triangles are involved in the wrong way.

concerning the wings i posted that already somewhere else. make a circle and place it on the body where the wing arm extruds from. then extrude the circly to form the outer rim, meaning upper-wing-arm, lower-wing-arm, wing-hand, outer-wing-finger. then copy the outer wing finger two or three times rotating/scaling it and attaching it to the wing-hand. after that add the wing-web and span it between the wing-fingers. if you have the wing-finger made well you can simply extrude the vertices from the side of the wing-finger all the way to the opposite wing-finger.

mind that modelling the wings is quickly done but animating them is horrible as it behaves like cloth to some extend (leathery cloth to be more precise ^_^).


(Pork) #12

thats looks really cool man, only thing i would say is that the body looks a little dogish, i dunno wether thats just the camera angle, it could well be, maybe it should be a bit longer, sweet model never the less though.


(Gjevon) #13

Thanks man,

laud is always very welcome :smiley:
Its definately the camera angle in side view the effect isn’t that pronounced. But as i said, its only a very early version of the torso, im playing around with it, hope i’ll find a satisfying solution. It proceeds step by step.

But if i’m looking forward i’ll likely get enormous headaches.
If i only think about texturing this whole thing makes me feel sick. Just started to read Tutorials about UV-Mapping with LSCM-Method.

I feel like crying. But started it and will get it finished. hopefully before Christmas. %|

I don’t know where i shall take all the time from, but it’s like a kind of addiction.

I think i’ll turn the night into day and model the wings and a more detailed Version of the torso. I’ll hopefully post the results tommorow.

Thanks a lot.


(Gjevon) #14

Here just a small screen
of how it looks like in an half-side-view, better impression of sizes i think.

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(womball) #15

Looks great so far! Not your typical dragon either. I think the neck and body need a lot more details and muscles, or fat. Its too simple as it is and contrasts with the head, so it doesn’t look cohesive.


(Odjin) #16

body anatomy looks horribly off, sorry to say that. try thinkin how this model would be animated. i know you do not want it to be animated but the problem is that it doesn’t look good as the legs can’t operate well on this body (or vice versa). best way to detect anatomical problems (which is also what makes it look ‘off’) is using a very simplistic armature just to move limbs around a bit.

at the moment he looks more like one of those water animals… ‘otter’ (in german), the guys with the really small legs but elongated tail. head/neck and torso/legs don’t really fit together right now.

EDIT: i guess one of the major problems besides the torso is that the hind-legs are bend backwards. there are animals with that sort of legs but if the front legs are bend backwards it just looks odd if the hind legs are also bend that way. have you modelled the hind legs in with three parts or two like the front ones?


(Gjevon) #17

Hi,
:smiley: I simply fitted them together as is said, didn’t spent much time on it. So please be patient. As i said the screen is just to give you a glimpse of the sizes of the whole model. Nothing finished nor really started torso modelling.

:stuck_out_tongue:

Till then