Graphic Design Hero: Tells off Craigslist

I saw this on Digg (it was originally on Craig’s List but pulled). I thought it was awesome. It puts to words many things I’ve thought for a long time. I imagine with the rare skillsets of people on this board there are many of us who have been asked to “work on the cheap” with the promise of some reward later. If so, please take a moment and read this:

Before you post seeking work from an artist, read on
Reply to: [email protected]
Date: 2007-01-23, 11:38AM CST

Hello business-people please read!

Every day, there are more and more CL posts seeking “artists” for everything from auto graphics to comic books to corporate logo designs.
More people are finding themselves in need of some form of illustrative service.

But what they’re NOT doing, unfortunately, is realizing how rare someone with these particular talents can be.

To those who are “seeking artists”, let me ask you;
How many people do you know, personally, with the talent and skill to perform the services you need? A dozen? Five? One? …none?

More than likely, you don’t know any. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be posting on craigslist to find them.

And this is not really a surprise.

In this country, there are almost twice as many neurosurgeons as there are professional illustrators.
There are eleven times as many certified mechanics.
There are SEVENTY times as many people in the IT field.

So, given that they are less rare, and therefore less in demand, would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free?
Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street?

Would you offer a neurosurgeon the “opportunity” to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor?
(Maybe you could offer him “a few bucks” for “materials”. What a deal!)

Would you be able to seriously even CONSIDER offering your web hosting service the chance to have people see their work, by viewing your website, as their payment for hosting you?

If you answered “yes” to ANY of the above, you’re obviously insane.

If you answered “no”, then kudos to you for living in the real world.

But then tell me… why would you think it is okay to live out the same, delusional, ridiculous fantasy when seeking someone whose abilities are even less in supply than these folks?

Graphic artists, illustrators, painters, etc., are skilled tradesmen.
As such, to consider them as, or deal with them as, anything less than professionals fully deserving of your respect is both insulting and a bad reflection on you as a sane, reasonable person.
In short, it makes you look like a twit.

A few things you need to know;

  1. It is not a “great opportunity” for an artist to have his work seen on your
    car/'zine/website/bedroom wall, etc.
    It IS a “great opportunity” for YOU to have their work there.

  2. It is not clever to seek a “student” or “beginner” in an attempt to get
    work for free. It’s ignorant and insulting.
    They may be “students”, but that does not mean they don’t deserve to be paid
    for their hard work.
    You were a “student” once, too. Would you have taken that job at McDonalds
    with no pay, because you were learning essential job skills for the real
    world?
    Yes, your proposition it JUST as stupid.

  3. The chance to have their name on something that is going to be seen by
    other people, whether it’s one or one million, is NOT a valid enticement.
    Neither is the right to add that work to their “portfolio”.
    They get to do those things ANYWAY, after being paid as they should.
    It’s not compensation. It’s their right, and it’s a given.

  4. Stop thinking that you’re giving them some great chance to work.
    Once they skip over your silly ad, as they should, the next ad is usually for
    someone who lives in the real world, and as such, will pay them.
    There are far more jobs needing these skills than there are people
    who possess these skills.

  5. Students DO need “experience”. But they do NOT need to get it by giving
    their work away. In fact, this does not even offer them the experience they
    need. Anyone who will not/can not pay them is obviously the type of person or
    business they should be ashamed to have on their resume anyway.
    Do you think professional contractors list the “experience” they got
    while nailing down a loose step at their grandmother’s house when they were
    seventeen?
    If you your company or gig was worth listing as desired experience, it would
    be able to pay for the services it received.
    The only experience they will get doing free work for you is a lesson learned
    in what kinds of scrubs they should not lower themselves to deal with.

  6. (This one is FOR the artists out there, please pay attention.)
    Some will ask you to “submit work for consideration”. They may even be posing
    as some sort of “contest”.
    These are almost always scams.
    They will take the work submitted by many artists seeking to win the
    “contest”, or be “chosen” for the gig, and find what they like most.
    They will then usually have someone who works for them, or someone who
    works incredibly cheap because they have no originality or talent of
    their own, reproduce that same work, or even just make slight modifications
    to it, and claim it as their own.
    You will NOT be paid, you will NOT win the contest.
    The only people who win, here, are the underhanded folks who run these ads.
    This is speculative, or “spec”, work. It’s risky at best, and a complete
    scam at worst.
    I urge you to avoid it, completely.
    For more information on this subject, please visit www.no-spec.com.

So to artists/designers/illustrators looking for work, do everyone a favor, ESPECIALLY yourselves, and avoid people who do not intend to pay you. Whether they are “spec” gigs, or just some guy who wants a free mural on his living room walls. They need you. You do NOT need them.

And for those who are looking for someone to do work for free… please wake up and join the real world. The only thing you’re accomplishing is to insult those with the skills you need. Get a clue.

Please copy and repost daily so that our profession may be respected.

I just read this on Digg.

I agree 100%. Some of these “offers” are really getting beyond shameless.

Wow. All the design firms in my city should read this. I live in an “artsy” city where the firms pay less than manual labor. I was making more money part time at a self-storage facility doing maintenance than I did doing graphic design for a web design firm! Talk about bass-ackwards…

edit: No-spec is evil.

Yes, that post does have some nice points, however, the respect goes when people start saying to spam it on craiglist everyday.

If your going to frown upon unethical practaces, it’s best not to do somthing unetical at the same time.

Good points for sure.
And anyone who thinks that art students don’t need the money obviously have never seen one of our supplies bills.

1 Like

Hell yeah.

finally some one who took the time to address this issue, in the past year or two there have been outrageous amounts of these postings on community forums and such… hey there was one on BA like a day ago… a guy paying 5 buks a character for 40 characters, paid in two years… lol…

imana keep this posting for reposting elsewhere so people know about this issue as well

What that guy said.

Just so long as artists are able to differentiate between these “business” scams (the BA contest forum has had its share of those) and the “Open” movies that are underway or planned.

I would never encourage someone to enter one of the “contests” that crop up from time to time (most are laughable in their expectations and should rarely attract quality entries) but I would still encourage skilled people to consider donating time to community projects like open movies in the same way that coders contribute their time and skill to coding open source software without expectation of payment. The hard part is assessing the prospect of the project to succeed and weighing this up against the experience you could gain just from taking part anyway.

If the project in question is a truly commercial venture (eg. a business asking for logo or animation) then artists should consider that what they do for free today will affect the price people expect to pay for similar services in the future. People competing for the lowest price can decimate an industry - and the fact you use a computer to do what people used to do manually is no reason for devaluing the final product. It is still worth what it’s worth, regardless of production method.

Also, note that anything you supply at no charge can (and usually will) be valued accordingly. So, if you place no value on it - neither will the customer… ever (again, this is not necessarily the case with community projects where people are usually glad to have contributors).

Well, it’s a good thing I just noticed that site (nospec) supports working Pro Bono, because up until a minute ago, I was disagreeing with it 100%.

I could not agree with that article more. It is soooo insulting, when someone acts like it is some great priveledge for you to have the exposure of being on their web page, or featured on their stationary. When someone takes that attitude, I tell them “Forget it, if you can’t afford it, quit wasting my time, I have to make a living.” Once in awhile though, I will work for free, depending on what it is. I did some work for a magazine that addressed Industrial pollution and other environmental concerns. It’s a good way to give to your community.

There are too many factors involved to say it this one thing or other. I do think one of the major parts of the equation is that EVERYONE has this idea in their head that they are an artist and they know what good art is. Therefore… you deserve little to no reimbursement because they could find someone else quickly, or worse, just do it themselves.

I agree with the feelings, comments, and truths 100%. But i think its up to the artists to just “ignore” such requests, and/or filter the ones they think are scams (until it gets to an unimaginable level, currently its not)

We are getting to an era where graphics designers are going to be like receptionists, every company will need one (or more). so there is plenty of work out there. just as people ask mates to fix their cars, or whatever other favours are out there. graphics artists will be asked for their work for free.

Just ignore it and don’t give your work away for free. its your choice, its not their fault for being naive.

Wasn’t this posted months and months ago?

Seems that is was valarking. You get a bonus point sticker for your star chart. What a good boy.

It’s still valid.

That’s the point, isn’t it. Its not the clients fault, if unemployed, or often unskilled or unprofessional artists are willing to work for very little, and often also deliver crappy cheap looking work, after the deadline has come and gone…

I’ve had many clients that think my work is too expensive, often they come back to me after they’ve had a bad experience with another artist, or simply seen the quotes from other artists. I can also tell you many stories of some of my clients’ experiences with very unprofessional artists. Often naive young graduates with a home pc and some pirate 3d software, who think they are simply going to start a million dollar business from home. Hey, who wants to work for a boss, right?

It comes down to this: do your work well, and charge a fair amount for it. Then you’ll find that the above mentioned article will be of no consequence to you.

From the work I’ve seen here on blenderartists, I think you deserve to get paid for sure.

[rant about corp. America] I think the big Co.'s are always going to try and crush the independent/freelancer. Ex. I am from Oregon and remember Nirvana before they were popular. They played the Saturicon(our popular dive club) for peanuts, and for free on new band night. They were just poor people. That is how Kurt really dressed because he was broke, not because it was in style.

He was booed often because people did not understand, or fathom his lyrics…I don’t even think most even listened to the lyrics. But crud like prefab Shrapnel-schlock-rock, David Coverdale budweiser-style-power-balleds, Zepplin-wannabees(Zeplin Rocks, just the wannabees suck) and mullet music left over from late 80’s was squeezing out at an alarming rate. Nirvana hit big, and the radio stations there were trying to push neg propaganda about Nirvana because they did not understand or even listen to their music. They refused to circulate the tunes when we requested Nirvana…untill Nirvana got so famous, they could not afford not too. then the radio stations talked endlessly about how cool they were. Kissin up to the bucks. In a way, I view Blender as the Nirvana of CG. A community that will do cool things on a lower budget(Not free, just cheaper, Where large co’s will go broke if they tried) that Large illustration/advert companies cannot compete with, then more businesses will want the affordable blender-guys to do illustrations for them and pay well. Then we’ll see Ton on CNN and the Daily Show talking about how he was late to the interview because AliasWavefront slashed his tires…Bingo, Rags to riches Blender scenario… [/rant about corp. America]

Thanks for tolerating my almost aimless fantasy story, I just felt like typing this morning since I have the day off.

I’m off to wiki.blender.org

peace

Timeless classic, and still holds true :o)

Also something worth to note (especially for beginners considering “getting-a-chance”.

If you plan to rush into one of these “opportunities” to work for slave-wages or for free
just to “get-a-foot-inside”, forget it…you may get the experience of working for deadlines
and for little or no pay…heck…working at a local pizzeria can get you that.

It’s also destroying your own future and smashing our potential marked and reputation,
if people think they can get you for FREE - it’s because they’ve either experienced
getting the likes of you for FREE - before - so it’s likely a lot of “yahooheads”
and “Look Ma - I can do 3D me, gizzzah!” that are contributing to completely destroying
our image (and their own future image!)

How are they destroying our image you might ask?
Well - if you can get something for free…why pay for it? Nevermind the quality…people
who hear the word “free” have a way of going nuts about it and bringing on the “hot news”
to the rest of their “business world” - so if the local going rate for us artists are “Free”
then you’re a part of destroying something that could be a wonderful future for you
and me.

Luckily I live in a small country and we don’t have heaps of 3D artists here and
most of them quickly attack the “freeloading business-kids” posts and it quickly
gets chewed down to the ground because basically no-one wants to work for
free and most of us stick together about that issue - so should YOU!

I’ve done the local pizzeria thing. I didn’t make pizza, I didn’t deliver pizza… what to know what I did? I held a sign on the side of the road for 6 hours a day in the hot summer sun… for $5.15 an hour. I’d sooner shoot myself in the head than take that job again.