Haters gonna hate: Dealing with criticism (and those who criticize)

I just wanted to be clear here because I realize it was totally UNCLEAR… I do think Andrew is a very talented artist and I would be happy to have him critique my work. I didn’t mean to say that he’s just starting out as an artist. The issue is that he is really good at photo real work but at this point, he is still learning the cartoon/stylized/representative stuff. he published a few videos last year where he shows his progress in learning that style and while the results were pretty great, it’s still quite beginner level stuff. And, I’m mostly responding to a few videos that I saw recently where he gives critique to peoples art who submit it. When it’s photo real work, he is mostly spot on (again, subjective) but when it’s cartoon work… it sounds like he’s just repeating the stuff he learned while reading How to Draw Cartoon Characters. My point is just that if you were to follow all the rules of cartoon caricature, Adventure time characters would be considered totally flawed and the show would never get off the ground. So, all of this is ignoring the existence is individual stylizations that occur in order to make things seem fresh and original or at the very least, different from the norm. And, I think this is what I’m really getting at: You need to take into these things into consideration when critiquing stylized work. In fact, I’m not even entirely sure you can properly critique stylized work…Can you?

@Indy_Logic

The problem with your criticism of his criticism is that you yourself are still learning to be a critic. Sure, you can write sentences that contain verbs characterizing the subject, but your argument merely reduces to pointing out the supposed inexperience of the person being critiqued.

Furthermore, a seasoned critic must be able to divide arguments into distinct paragraphs, even when the ideas presented are connected.

I can have the tendency to elaborate to much because I then start to rather have a reflective monolog.

However I am very happy that you found the thoughts I tried to provide are good.
Sometimes you have to really dig deeper to understand the underlying relationships.

Besides what some one thinks about Andrew’s feedback here is one very important aspect to seeking feedback.

Everybody will tell you something different. Art is art - it is not math with true or wrong.
That makes it daunting, but also makes it very exciting.

I have now 3 days of morning till evening reviews of our end of year student reviews behind me.
The reviewers, 4 faculty members, all fought a lot about the grades we were awarding.
Sometimes we all agreed - sometimes we were very far apart - and yet we are all professionals.

That is one of the main reason why I tell my students that they should not put any weight on what I think because
my opinion is subjective. True on a technical level one can say a model is detailed or bland, but on an artistic level
if a certain style of eye representation is a matter of if subject matter fits the intent actually.

I am not a big fan of common conventions. Picasso and Co fought for us to free us from the idea of what the French Salon was.

I think this well fits to your eye question. The style does not matter. But people follow style as a check list to be good.
They fail to see that the style is only a possible vehicle for the story you want to tell.

I think you can very well critique stylized work - you can also with taste choices explain with reason why you did it
because still they have a visual function. That is why I find it humorous when product design students think artists do not
solve problems - they fail to see that artists solve on a constant basis visual problems.

When I was in graduate school I needed explain every tiny decision into detail why what for … and it was good because
it makes you get over your “I like this so I do it” and makes you think “what I can do visually to achieve this??”.

I think you also have to pick your right audience. I agree that to a certain degree Andrew repeats what he learned.
Some of the work on a technical level looked good but maybe through his presentation of his research it felt too much
color by numbers.

But besides that the architecture rendering work that came out of his service and the people he hired for this was very
pleasing - something that besides all the criticism of “buy me now with 30 day money guarantee” has to be applauded I think.
I at least always enjoyed seeing the results and the reflected well on Blender and Cycles and what the software could produce.

BeerBaron - notice no more terrible line breaks :wink:

Oh BeerBaron. So clever you are. I really get the feeling that you have absolutely no intention of making friends with anyone. It’s so strange. Are you like this in real life? I mean, outside the internet?

(paragraph) I wonder about you all the time when reading the forum. You’re like, salt and peppered throughout almost every thread I read. Threaded if you will, throughout the thread. Sometimes you have interesting information and opinions. Sometimes it’s almost like you are trying to emotionally break people. Other times, you seem like a pedantic grammar robot who can only respond to things if they are properly formatted.

(paragraph) I often think, what kind of person are you really though? Would I find you as amusing in person? Do you just have conversions about having conversations? Do you have no friends or are you actually the life of the party wherever you go? Do you look like your avatar (his expression is so oddly appropriate)? Why do you want for a life filled with constant debate? Are you are lawyer or something? Sometimes I’ve even wondered if you are actually a real person or someones super advanced chat bot, the likes of which no one has ever seen. Like, we are all just beta testers. :smiley: Some day soon, I expect to see in the news section that BearBaron 2.0 is now released. So strange and mysterious you are.

“How do you handle criticism”

Like everyone should
Just see if there’s any validity in what the person is saying
if yes
Take it, look at what he is saying, and try to keep it in mind
if no
Ignore it.

some guy probably 10,000 km away from me saying something “mean” to me on the internet is the least of my problems.

Excuse me while I do some fan Q&A…

You got that right!

Are you like this in real life? I mean, outside the internet?

No, that would be impossible. This is a character, it only really “works” online.

(paragraph) I wonder about you all the time when reading the forum.

You do?

Sometimes it’s almost like you are trying to emotionally break people.

That’s harsh, man. I don’t want to break anything, I just like being sardonic. Not everybody likes that, just like not everybody likes olives. It’s never truly in mean spirit, though!

Other times, you seem like a pedantic grammar robot who can only respond to things if they are properly formatted.

In this case, it’s just part of the joke. The topic is criticism. Poor formatting is a very valid thing to criticize. You gave me the chance to criticize your criticism of someone else’s criticism. That’s so meta, I had to go for it. Your lack of paragraphs was just the obvious thing to go for, because I’m lazy.

Do you look like your avatar (his expression is so oddly appropriate)?

That’s fully intentional, of course. It really drives the point home.

Like, we are all just beta testers.

You are, kind of.

Amazing a thread about giving and getting feedback and the this …

THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER!!! ROTFL! You are brilliant!

So the thread about how to give critique and dealing with criticism has become a thread that criticizes the points being made about critique (and people who are pretending to be the only ones on the forum who are truly qualified to do this)?

This thread, in a sense, is bringing the very thing that it said people should avoid (what with some going as far as nitpicking grammar to discredit the points of others).

Well, you know a thread has reached the lowest of low points when the most reasonable statement about the subject is by a creationist. I’m unsubbing this train wreck…

did you really not see this coming?

really?

No it hasn’t, they aren’t, and it isn’t. You guys need to stop taking things so seriously. The thread is pretty good, and the posts you refer to are just good harmless fun. We can “get back on topic” any time we want. “Take a load off! Relax guy! Put your feet up!”