i did the cg cookie hand rig this week
and got a problem with the thum which ahs a roll angle
tried all sort of values but it does not seems to fit and rotate as the other fingers
can anybody help with this rig
Thanks for any help
Not to be too anal about things… but shouldn’t this question be asked in the animation section?
The animation forum is for doing anmation IPO curves i guess
basic rigging is not animation it’s right before doing the animation part i think
anybody has played with this simple rigging for a had
which is nice but tricky to do even with the video
i mostly have prolbme with the thumb part which need a roll angle
i tried checking the video several times and redo it in 2.5 but there are some trick i guess
here!
Thanks
In the armature panel turn on axis, all 3 bones of a finger that works should have the same axis pointing upwards, either the z-axis or the x-axis, or downward. Anyway, they should all match, all 3 bones. The thumb should be the same, but the axis should be pointing to the outside of the hand for it to work correctly. Use ctrl-r to rotate the bones, or in the 3d view, the armature menu (when in armature edit mode) has a menu for bone roll. In the attached screenshot, think of this as a left hand, the top row of bones is the index finger, the bottom row of bones is the thumb, see how in the finger, all the bone’s z-axis is pointing up? All the thumb bones have the z-axis pointing to the left. That’s how you want to orient the bones. If you have a working finger, you should be able to duplicate it, rotate it, set the bone roll, and it should work.
Please note, I did not watch the blendercookie.com tutorial, so I don’t know how Jonathan created that rig. I did watch 10 mins of Demetrii’s original russian narrated video that Jonathan based his 45 min tutorial on, and figured out the technique used. It’s really a simple technique, so I didn’t waste 45 mins of my life watching the blendercookie.com tutorial.
Generally, yes, rigging questions are asked in the animation support topics, although you are right, yes, rigging is done before animation. Don’t ask my why… I’ve never questioned it, I just know - “when in rome, do as the romans do”…
Randy
Attachments
it is a simple hand rig and like it for a simple character i’;m trying to do
with minimum rigging but not really for animation just as a simple model to change and get fast simple poses .
i’ll try to remember the anim froum for general rigging also!
i don’t know how to transfert this to the other forum so let’s try to finish this one here
should not be very long
i think as you said i have the right axis orientation for the thumb see pic
seems ok i did follow the video and recheck this a few times
but if you look at the second pic the thumb has change rotation i think for an unknown reason it’is sort of rotated i think but not certain how to bring it back where it should be!
i did set all the vertices for each of the group / bones
but still need to add some vertices with less weight to get smooth changes in the hand
but i’ll do that later on
don’t know here may be there is a clear something
i tried the Alt-R for clear rotation in 2,5
clear scale with Alt-s
but don’t know what the clear Location is in 2,5 ?
the video is good but does not cover all the unknow things that can happen
whch is fine cause there are so many little things that can go wrong when you do a rigging
i don’t have much experience on rigging and still trying to learn with some of theses sinple videos and it’s fun i have learn more in this hour of video then in the last few months on rigging.LOL
Thanks and happy 2.5
OK, no problemo on the topic thingy, blah… and yea, you got an issue with vertex groups/weight painting, not gonna deal with those now…
In the pics you posted, the z-axis of the fingers are pointing upwards, so is the thumb, you need to adjust the bone roll of all the thumb bones so z-axis points where the x-axis is now pointing, and x-axis needs to point down. Think you have to do it one bone at a time and for best results, make sure they all are aligned. I’ve attached a pic that shows in yellow the z-axis of the finger, and in blue, the z-axis of the thumb.
Also, it looks like the copy rotation constraints on the thumb is working backwards. On the copy rotation constraints, you select which rotation to copy, you can also tell it to copy that rotation in a negative way. That would solve that problem, coping the rotation in a negative way.
Or, you could correct the bone roll so the thumb’s x-axis points upward, and the z-axis points in towards the finger and not mess with the constraint. Again, with the armature in edit mode, CTRL-R allows you to adjust the bone roll of the selected bone.
Hope this helps,
Randy
Attachments
i should have used another angle for the pic but there is a roll on the thumb i think this is working with Z up for fingers and Z up +roll for the thumb which is as per video
now i did play with the radian value for roll from negative to positive and with negative the roll goes the other way whicc is not the right way it has to be positive!
see pic this is as per the video i think
now i suspect as you said it may only have something to do with the vertex group and not the constraints
can you tell me how to correct the vertex group cause i check the video and think i did what was indicated to select only group associated with the proper bone and in edit mode and selected vertex grop i don’t see any other vertex
but may be it has to do with the shape and qty of vertex in the hand i did see pic
it’s a low poly hand may be i need to subdiviede more?
i can PM you the file if you want
let me know might be easier to see for yourself
i know it is something very basic as a problem but what is it!
Thanks
Yea, send me the file… I’ll look at it… Vertex groups have nothing to do with the way a rig works, they affect how the rig controls the mesh. I like to separate out the armature into another object layer when working on one, that way, I only work on the rig, not the character. Once the rig is working correctly, then you can think about vertex groups and weight painting. I did not notice, or rather carefully look at, the bone shapes you had in one of your previous posts, it indicated a possible bone roll issue too. Didn’t catch that.
Send me the file, or post it here is fine, I’ll tell you how to fix it, and if the file is posted here, it could help others…
Randy
i’m trying here to load up the file but it’s crashing - 3 times now
what it the command in 2,5 to clear location ?
hope it helps other people too
.
Thanks and appreciate help
I rolled the bones for the thumb somewhat, not much, but a little. Also, on the first bone for the thumb, the one closest to the hand, I changed the copy rotation constraint from world space to local space in the c-space fields. This makes the constraint follow the local space of the controller bone. That really needs to be done for all the fingers, as is, if you grab the hand and the armature in object mode and rotate it so the hand is upside down, the fingers will go all crazy.
In the original tutorial that the blendercookie one is based off of, I thought all the copy rotation constraints were set to local space. I also thought the copy rotation constraint copied the rotation of the bone before it. For example, the bone in the tip of the thumb copied the rotation of the bone in the middle, and the middle one copied the rotation of the one at the base. But I could be wrong on those.
Anyway, yea, that’s all I did was rotate the bones and change the constraint a bit.
Randy
Attachments
handrigcg10.blend (651 KB)
problem solved i recheck the tip bone for the thumb and some vertices where not added to it
so i change that and seem to work ok now
last question about this hand
how do you use this rig?
i mean can i joint hand this to my character and then continue the rig
or do i have to redo it completely on the character as such ?
like i have the character with a hand right now but i can remove that hand and try to use this rigged hand by joning it to the character don’t know if that wouldd work ok
Thanks
My point in commenting on the placement of your post wasn’t to bust your chops over posting in the wrong place – that’s the mods place, if they are so inclined… my point was that rigging questions are usually asked in the animation section, so some of the best expertise is found there. Not everyone reads every section… so, if you want to get a better response, you might have a better shot in the animation section.
If you would rather tell me why you are right, and the rest of the community is wrong… Feel free. I was simply trying to help.
FWIW, Demetri did a nice tutorial on finger rigging that you might find helpful. He put it in the Finished Projects section (which is probably not where you would expect to find a tutorial) so you may not have seen it:
Well, you could do a couple of things, I briefly watched this tutorial awhile back:
http://www.blendercookie.com/2010/01/14/tip-combining-two-rigs/
Or you could just reconstruct the rig again for your character, then you’d gain experience with rigging. It’s 4 bones per finger, so you create 4 bones, constrain them, get them to working right, then duplicate those 4 for each finger your character has and place them as needed.
Not like it’s a lot of work, maybe at first it is, but like anything, the more you do it, the quicker you get at it. There’s no substitute for experience…
Randy
PS - glad to see you found the vertices that were missing from the group.
I did not see this tut onr multi rig on Cg cookie!
seems very interesting i’ll download it and study this today to learn more on how to with rig
Thanks very much and happy 2.5
In addition I just saw that Blender Cookie made an English version of the Demetri Finger rig: Demetri Rig on Blender Cookie.