How to search for stuff without AI or makeup products or other nonsense?

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Just curious.

I am a master of google-fu when it comes to looking up documentation for, say, the Windows API, or for how to do stuff in <insert programming language here>.

But I don’t seem to have figured out the 3D modeling magic.

The impetus for this question was Kaylee’s eyelashes. I had initially set them to a kind of dark reddish color (’cause she’s a red-head), but as I am trying to tighten things up (and messing with her again, trying to move forward on my project), I wanted to look around for eyelash color, er, natural eyelash color, er human eyelash color — huh. What The Flip.

I can’t figure out how to get past <insert search engine here>’s FAKE EYELASH EXTENSIONS NOW crap.

Had a similar problem when looking at archviz models. Half the crap online these days is computer modeled but presented as real products. Again, hells bells. What happened to good old photography? Wouldn’t it be cheaper just to take a photo? I feel like I need to go to the appliance store just to look at real examples of, say, a dishwasher.

So my humble question is…

What do you guys (and gals) do to get good search results?

Is there some magic I don’t have that triggers good results, not the flood of images that are just Pinterest and Shutterstock and AI and all that slop?

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Yeah, that’s a modern problem. You cannot really find a photo of a glass of water online. :laughing: No, but really. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

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image1921×1297 2.51 MB

Can you tell for sure which one of these is a real photo? I cannot.

It’s a problem.

I am lucky it’s mostly still possible to tell what is a photo and what is not in archviz related product photos. Most of the time it’s pretty obvious. For finishes it’s not great. It has never been great. Most photos are edited to the point that is a problem, because stuff does not look like it does in reality, or the resolution is insufficient anyway so it’s just difficult. I think taking photos yourself is some sort of a solution. Doesn’t always work, not always practical, but then you can be sure. :man_shrugging: But, yeah, that’s not much of a solution for most things. It’s just not practical or impossible. I guess I have no idea how to approach this problem really effectively. It’s getting harder and harder to find real reliable reference for stuff online.

Actually I am dealing with this problem in my current projects. I have to visualize specific finishes and mostly manufacturer photos are not worth anything and they often have visualisations, so what I do is I sometimes just search more thouroughly and just spend more time on it. I find photos of stuff in random places like Facebook interior design groups where people just post their own photos of the stuff taken with a phone, lighting is crap, but you can get a sense of how it actually looks. It’s ridiculous… :laughing:

But on the other hand if you realize the problem and are ready to go extra mile and put effort into finding or making good reference for yourself, I think it can be a competitive advantage these days. So that’s maybe nice… In some areas, in some cases. We all do different stuff, it’s not the same for everyone…

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Perhaps, but for some things that is not really possible.

I imagine I would get arrested pretty quickly if I were to go park myself in the nearest shopping mall and ask all the young ladies walking by if I could take photos of their eyelashes.

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Adding ‘reference’ to the search can help a lot, and of course all the usual -ai -stablediffusion -midjourney -gemini -chatgpt -anthropic etc to exclude ai results. in fact, you can also exclude pinterest and shutterstock in the same way.

Another thing I’ve been doing is specifically seeking out and hoarding pre-AI era image/art books.

And another little cheatcode for any human stuff if you can’t find good references anywhere else, is to use a mirror or your own camera to take photos.

Wikipedia can be a decent source too, thankfully no one has brigaded them with AI slop yet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyelash

and here’s a picture of my confirmed human 100% real authentic eyelashes if that helps:

IMG_5999.HEIC
IMG_5999.HEIC2316×3088 1.26 MB

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For makeup stuff, it’s super easy. Teen Vogue, Fashion Times, Cosmopolitan, Glamour, ELLE. All the beauty reference you could ever possibly need, all online, helpfully organized by year

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Not necessarily. :laughing: You can get away with a lot of stuff. :laughing: Try it. Don’t have mustache and don’t wear a trench coat though. Having a dog helps. :laughing:

I am joking here, but I do actually mean that when you really try, it sometimes turns out to be possible to get photos of stuff. But that’s extra effort and lots of extra time…

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I just looked up “lashes” on Teen Vogue and immediately got an article with closeups of eyelashes:

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Bah, lo-res and not a redhead. Booo!

…all photoshopped to unreality.

I just looked up “lashes” on Teen Vogue and immediately got an article with closeups of eyelashes:

Er, not real eyelashes.



We’re doomed.

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Current eyelashes:

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image534×780 748 KB

I don’t know how much any of it matters, really. I am at the limits of my understanding when it comes to making everything look right.

I am not displeased with the current results, but IDK how to really add those touches that make her look real. (Currently messing with bump maps, but IDK what I’m doing, so…)

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Ok, nitpicky, go to Reddit then:

https://www.reddit.com/r/eyes/comments/1tsoph/a_redheaded_friend_of_mine_has_stunning_blues/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Redhair/comments/1s3g2o6/my_hair_matches_my_freckles_and_they_both_match/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Redhair/comments/1suxc61/my_hair_has_gotten_more_brown_with_age_am_i_still/\

https://www.reddit.com/r/Redhair/comments/1te7iiw/who_says_we_cant_wear_pink/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Redhair/comments/1bocsnr/hello_fellow_redheads/

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Yeah it’s getting a bit harder, but come on… human face is a pretty popular thing to photograph… It’s still possible.

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oooh, reddit. I forgot that existed.

I suppose I’ll have to create an account. They’ve put up a wall to handle all the AI bots recently so I’ve actually been avoiding it.

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Looks really good so far. I would not be surprised at all if you could trick some people already.

They are varying levels of touched up, but https://unsplash.com/ and https://pixabay.com/ can be good sources

texturingXYZ is more focused on scans and skin textures, but they do have some reference photo sections too: https://texturing.xyz/collections/photos paid, but if they ever post a redhead you can see her eyelashes in the preview I’m sure.

Artstation and Gumroad also often have paid photo reference packs, though, these days you do have to be careful about a big .zip of AI slop i think. Surest method to avoid it is always to check the upload date and see if its from before AI took off.

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Thanks!

Unsplash is a favorite of mine. Pixabay ticks me off every time I go near it.

“Paid” is the major problem I have.
Had I $1000 unencumbered then I actually have a list of tools and scans I would buy for use with Blender.
But alas, that will never happen for me.


So, wait, this is what professionals have to do too? How do they get the amazing normal maps and stuff? (Is it just that they can afford to purchase everything they need for a job? Or to buy the hardware+software necessary to do it themselves? Or what?)

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Hmmm… in may favorite search engine :duck: :duck: and “some simple keywords”.. DuckDuckGo (no-ai): eyeslash natural “no makeup” i got some interesting before/after images.. so one also can compare and maybe also “judge” already made-up ( ← pun intended) images.

When using the keywords real human face reference for artists there seems to be already some AI images in there… (especially “from Pinterest” (?) )

Also.. before the lates “takeover” ArtStation was full of references for artists be it poses body details.. or faces. (In fact i didn’t “looked” at this so much lately.. maybe i was “bored” already about all this felt-like-50%-is-only-art-ref-advertisment :sweat_smile: )

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Big Brand Name has a new washing machine and needs marketing photos. How would you get those photos? Find a location for the photo, transport machine to location, hire photographer to bring all their equipment to location and take photos. Photographer then edits/re-touches photos to make them more attractive. What do you think all that costs?

Probably cheaper to have a 3d artist model & texture the machine, stick it in a background scene they already have and hit render.

Trust me, I know your pain. It’s hard to find good reference photos for certain things, I’m struggling with that now.

As to the eyelashes of your character. I always thought eyelashes are dark and blackish in color no matter the hair color. Eyebrows are usually the same color as the hair. This is something someone who focuses on human modelling/creation would know.

Just my thoughts,
Randy

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I add before:2022 to my reference searches, because reality ended in 2022 :slight_smile:

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Sorry, the answer is: for them, pennies.

I used to do in-home appliance repair. I got paid well. A typical job cost the brand name at minimum several hundred dollars, and often quite a bit more. (The chunk I got out of it was pretty reasonable, too.)

I had one guy once ask me, as I was the third person sent out to fix his clothes washer (so we’re talking about the cost of the machine at this point), “wouldn’t it be easier just to send me a new machine?”

My answer was: “Believe me, they have very highly-paid accountants answering that very same question once every quarter. And the answer is: no.”

I once had a company send me the parts to completely disassemble a front-end washer to replace the (leaking) front-half of the wash tub instead of just sending a new wash tub assembly and taking the old one back.

Samsung, for its part, actually does that. These days working for them is just a mindless flow chart in their app to determine which component to order. They’ll send the entire assembly, you replace it and send back the old one, which they diagnose and refurbish at the factory and send back out again.

So… is it really cheaper to have someone 3D model it? IDK that it really matters. Some accountant has answered the question using criteria we are not privy to.

But it all boils down to (what for them is) small change. I wish they’d go for real instead of Shiny Marketing for Suits.

Oh, for the record, I fixed the guy’s clothes washer properly. (The drain pump motor was frying the main control board [the computer]. Other techs from other companies were just replacing the control board, and it took about a month to crisp each new one nicely. So a new drain pump AND a new PCB — problem fixed, no callback.)
:wink:

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If you are not searching for something new, then adding before:2022 in google search is good.

Also, there are reference packs out there for buying. Of course, make sure it’s not a new seller with enormous reference packs (as those are most like generated). The added bonus of good reference pack is that you will really get a good quality, high resolution images.

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