Unlike Filmic, Agx does not push bright orange to yellow. I think this is good, but because of that, all blackbody colors are orange.
It took me a lot of time to know what was going on here. After watching numerous posts and YouTube videos, I understood a lot of things. But in conclusion, I didn’t know what to do.
This is because basically the color management of the blender affects the final output. There is no such thing as ‘bright yellow’ in Agx. So no matter how hard I try in the composite, as long as I’m using Agx, I’ll never get yellow. I think this is a crucial difference between Filmic and Agx.
Yes. I learned to use the convert colorspace node in the composite without using agx in color management. Then it will be able to do color correction after applying agx. But then why is agx in color management the default?
What is the workflow that the blender officially presents? Use agx in color management and work on it, but turn off color management and use it in the composite when you color correction?
There’s the better part of 4,000 highly contentious posts that led to this decision if you’d care to read them AgX is the default because a very, very, loud group of users insisted it be so, that doesn’t mean AgX is the best option for every scenario
It’s none of my business how many people’s decisions have been made. I just want to change the orange to yellow, and I was first taken aback by the fact that it’s not possible in the default settings. And even for hours after posting this, I’m still struggling how it’s possible. I’ve already connected to agx in the compositor, and I’m adjusting the color outside of agx, but I still can’t make a natural yellow.
I don’t know if you’ve tried it. It is not so easily possible. It is of course possible to simply combine the two color spaces in half as a mix. But this means that the bad things about filmic add up equally in half. I want to take most of the looks to agx, but I want to make sure that only bright yellow follow the filmic look. And this fails because in most cases the boundaries do not seem natural.
It sounds like agx is not appropriate to deal with flame colors. But it is at odds with other posts. I’ve been studying blackbody radiation for a couple of weeks because of this problem, and I’ve actually found that the color of the flame is more orange than saturated yellow, and I’ve heard a lot of times that agx is closer to the color standard used in film industry. (If not, there would have been no reason to base agx on 4.0) Just, if that’s the case, how to turn that color yellow like most videos should have been provided as well. However, this is not the case in the current version.
AgX has nothing to do with the film industry- for that, you want ACES. The reason 4.0 has AgX as the default is not related to any kind of industry standard
I’m not the person to talk to about this, but rest assured that industry compatibility was not a factor in the development of AgX. Again, there’s about 4000 posts discussing exactly what went into AgX here on this forum
" I’ve heard a lot of times that agx is closer to the color standard used in film industry."
The film industry is an industry, and it has standards. That doesn’t mean you have to do anything remotely related to how the film industry does it. If you’re personally working on a film production right now, then I would consult with the production team and determine which ways you’d like to deal with output, compositing, and color.
Are you trying argue semantics, or make the fire look the way you want, or just discuss the situation in general?
If it’s the latter, we’ve already got a thread for that. If it’s achieving the look you were able to get with filmic, then use filmic. I can’t determine if you have a question and are seeking a solution, or just wish to share your thoughts on fire color.
There is no universal “works for everything, perfectly” color output setting. Blender chose AGX for the default, due to reasons you don’t care about. I don’t use AGX, no one has to use it. Use the one that looks best for your particular scene.
I have been using AGX since the beginning when it was supported in Blender, so I have no major complaints. I also prefer AGX over Filmic.
The work I created is a result where the difference between Filmic and AGX is not that big.
I tried mixing Filmic and AGX and it seemed to work fine as a way to slightly adjust the tone.
The general rule of thumb is that this sort of thing happened in chemical film as well. Photographers knew that the idea of a simultaneously high energy intensity and high purity were orthogonal ideas; if one wanted a more pure mixture, one would need to drop exposure.
A critical part of the discussion is a rather contested subject; whether the two axes should be decoupled when forming “generic” pictures. As of this writing, I am under the strong suspicion that we must not decouple the purity from intensity, due to complex neurophysiological “connectedness”. Happy to try and explain my reasoning for anyone who is interested.
To specifically address “why” the existing default broadly ended up as it is:
Author judgement. This was the folks who managed to get the newer formation into Blender, and as such, their decisions in conjunction with the Blender maintainers / leadership rule.
A balance. While I personally believe that the longer wavelength purities should swing more hard to the Tritan axis typically associated with “Yellowness”, there is a balancing act between this and the need of some product design oriented decisions that may desire less swing.
To address “how” to shift the results:
A Before Picture Formation grade adjustment; change the axial chromaticity angle subtly prior to forming the picture via the AgX-like default.
An After Picture Formation grade adjustment; sample and adjust the axial chromaticty angle after forming the picture via the AgX-like default.
There are examples on this forum on how to gently twist the results, including even a basic per channel exponential function or pivoted exponential function is likely suitable.
Because by default picture formation is required in 3D rendering digital content creation software.
Stop with this nonsense. You realize the foundation itself and the rather experienced artists and developers there have an overwhelming say in what lands and doesn’t land in Blender?
This is pure nonsense. Stop with it.
I would seriously suggest you actually practice grading pictures. There is a very trivial set of techniques to creatively adjust the output to meet authorship needs.
I am most certainly the one who stands by the idea that multiple picture formation paths will become a general default concept in the future. For this specific need however, the idea to toss out a pretty reasonable baseline picture formation is absolute rubbish, anchored in poorly understood mechanics.
There are other posts here on this subject. The “flame durr yellow” is a very specific picture detail. How much is a creative choice, and again, is achievable with a minor grading adjustment. The broader issue is the distinct dearth of robust grading tools within Blender. This has a backstory that is at least a decade and a half old.
It is not nonsense. It has been argued for, and against, by advocates who each have solid reasoning for their preference. The same debates took place prior to AGX even entering the game, with Filmic vs Standard.
The Academy is also filled with “experienced artists and developers”, yet you disagree with their support of ACES; the Appeal to Authority fails both ways.
AgX is the default because a very, very, loud group of users insisted it be so, that doesn’t mean AgX is the best option for every scenario