Is it worth trying if I can't code?

Game Engine Game Engine Support and Discussion
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Last weekend I acted on impulse and did the BSoD tutorial for the game engine. I finished the tutorial in about two hours. It was the most fun I’d ever had learning something in Blender.

My question is the same as the title: is it worth trying to build games in the game engine without any coding ability? EG. solely by high level sensors, actuators, etc.? This might be an annoying question to folks here with more experience. Yes, I should research that before I waste bandwidth with this topic, but I wanted to ask before I devoted any time to really tinkering with the GE. I’m very fascinated by the possibilities of the Blender game engine, but if I won’t be able to get anywhere without the ability to code, I’d rather not get my hopes up.

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Its definitely still worth it.
I spent my first 3 years using the BGE without knowing a thing about coding. Just using the logic bricks is enough to do a lot. (also now with the new state stuff and memory fixes, logic bricks are even more powerful)

But after a while you’ll find yourself growing out of them, and needing that ‘little bit more power’ which comes along with using python. But by that stage, perhaps you’ll be ready to learn coding? Its not as hard as many think, and once you have everything else about the GE under your belt it will be an easy step up. I think the major problem is that people jump into coding without actually learning and understanding how the GE works first, which just leads to confusion.

I’ll leave a second comment in a second with more links to GE related stuff which will help people getting started with the GE. :cool:

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.:This is an automated message:.

Thankyou for showing interest in the BGE.
To further enhance your experience and knowledge I’ve provided some links below:

Noob to Pro (basic Blender related stuff, not all GE)
Tutorialsforblender - Huge amount of GE related stuff
Blendenzos site - Good tutorials (including Socials Intro to Python)
BSoD GE Intro
GE Wiki

Keep GE-Blending!

4

roflmao this wins

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Yeah, coding really helps. I would recommend it, though coding is VERY simple, at least to me it is (I’ve had some experience coding, so it may still be hard for others).

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blender scripts in python, python is very easy to use and learn. search for socials python for beginners tutorial.
python was actually my 2nd programming language that i learned, i thought python was the only thing id ever want to program in, but look at me now, im coding an operating system in ASM (the second lowest level programming language ever!) and assistance software in multiple languages, and im coding a the new FIRE Blender build (blender for developers). which requires high knowledge of Python, C, and C++

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I despise and loathe programming, and yet decided to learn the GE and am now rapidly getting to the point where I want to learn programming for the extra power it provides. It’s addictive, in a head-desk sorta way.

-Stefan-

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python is a great language, ive dabbled in a few programming languages but finally settled on python as the one for me. its so easy to learn and understand, google for swaroop’s python guide - a byte of python. its easy to follow and fun. you can master the basics in a weekend. i believe its best to learn python on its own before bringing it into the GE.

i come from the other direction, a python programmer moving to blender. logic bricks are fine, but they get messy and you dont have as much control. python as much as i can.

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Anayo,
I’m in the same boat as you (when it comes to python) and i’ve decided to go on and learn it. Not long ago, i came across a post on here that had praise for one of the best games ever made with the BGE and guess what? Only Logic Bricks were used.

Maybe we should start a little on-line club and learn python together?

AD-Edge,
thanks for the links! I found this page and am wondering if one should learn python 3 or 2.x? Since it will take a while for me to learn, would version 3 be a good choice to start?

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…it’s worth learning some coding (or at least scripting).
It’s really not all that hard, and there are plenty of good python tutes out there.

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That would be cool! Ive been wanting to enhance my python skills more lately.

Ive got no idea! But i do know that Blender is currently using v2.5, so i guess it would be best to start learning that (2.x), then just learn whatever is new in v3 when it comes out, if its even changed anything related to Blender.

Also Anayo, i think now that your looking at the BGE you should change ur signature

Subdivide… subdivide… subdivide… subdivide subdivide subdivide subdivide subdividesubdividesubdividesubdivideSUBDIVIDESUBDI VIDESUBDIVIDESUBDIVIDE

crash

To

Subdivide… subdivide… subdivide…

crash

Its a better representation of how the GE handles subdividing :wink:

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@Anayo

It’s worth it; I mean you definitely need to start somewhere.

That said, logic bricks are a limited system for basic prototyping, and even with the new “state system” (which I see as completely pointless) larger games will still become unmanageable at a certain point.

Learn python; there are numerous benefits, and you will need it in order to get the most out of the BGE.

Lol, “little bit”.

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The state system cant be completely pointless Social? I see its mainly useful as being able to turn off unneeded sensors and actuators, instead of just leaving them to chew through the cpu. Right?

But yes, larger games could still easily become unmanageable… Understandably.

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Originally Posted by onemanblend http://blenderartists.org/forum/images/ba-buttons/viewpost.gif
Maybe we should start a little on-line club and learn python together?

That would be cool! Ive been wanting to enhance my python skills more lately.
I wonder what would be a “workable” way to pull this off?
If there were a handful of blender users new to the BGE and one experienced coder, willing to work with us on an “learning project” together?

I would make time for this! Anyone else?

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oh yea, a system to free cpu resources for unused stuff is completelly useless ;). don’t be that extremist, Social.

note: i use a lot of python but also the state system to cull stuff that shouldn’t be running at the same time.

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The state system is not completely useless… sensors that are not in active states are not polled/active at all so it gives an opportunity for some speedup.
But I like the state system :slight_smile:

And yes like social said you should learn python it really helps a lot when you get to anything more complicated than maze games. It is possible to make more complicated games without but python is a great help.

You should listen to social he can help a lot just as long as you don’t act like an idiot. :smiley:

hah smilies are fun…

Edit: Holy crap three people posted while I was writing this post… mabye I should learn to type faster.

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not really needed, python is very well documented, and once you’ve got a grasp of basic python all the modules and functions in the BGE are quite easy to understand and use. a lot of tutorials using python in the BGE dont cover the basics and can make implementing code confusing

its better to learn python outside the game engine, the functions you use in the BGE will make more sense then, plus all the standard python you can bring to your games. cant reconmend this enough: http://www.swaroopch.com/notes/Python

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:rolleyes:

Don’t be so shortsighted. (and read below as I explain my reasoning)

If the point of having a game engine is to make game development easier, while loosing little in flexibility, then yes, the “state system” is completely pointless, because it does not coincide with those fundamental goals.

Look, logic bricks are an inherently flawed system; you get pre-programed blocks which you can mish-mash together in order to develop some basic logic programmability, but beyond that all you have is restrictions.

Case and point: The basic mouselook.

In order to have some basic mouselook functionality, one needs information about the position of the mouse, the center of the screen, and what the mouse offset is in relation to the center. There is a little more processing there, but those would be the critical pieces.

Now, I want you to imagine how much the mouse sensor would have to be modified in order to give you all that necessary information, and imagine what other bricks would have to be added. Additionally, imagine all the bricks that would be required to actually process that information into proper rotation (let’s not even go into properties)…

It would just be a matter of shoveling more shit (bricks) down an already stuffed crap pipe.

More bricks (or more brick options) is NOT helping when one looks at the big picture. Hell, we still have trouble when it comes to managing all the bricks and brick types we have now, and adding on to that flawed system is supposed to help us?

I’m not saying that logic bricks don’t have their role in the BGE, they do, but that role is to be an introduction vehicle; you can connect a few bricks together, and see something move, and that’s nice, that’s what gets people interested. However, trying to extend that simple system into anything more IS POINTLESS, because you’ll need to create new, or modify existing bricks to provide specific pieces for all those little externalities (load file, save file, networking, rasterizer data etc) that developers would surely need.

Speed? Please don’t use that bullshit excuse to justify development time wasted on the state system. The FPS template is an old demo, but it’s still a fairly complicated one, and it can run without any “help” from the “state system” at ~14% of overall logic usage.

Logic cycles were not the dominant issue in the BGE, the bottleneck was in the render pipe and the physics sytem for as long as I can remember. Although, even if the “state system” did something to make things so much faster for everyone…IT WOULD STILL BE POINTLESS, because the core flaw of the brick system (unmanageable) is still present. So yea, you would have all the speed, but you still wouldn’t be able to actually make something big enough to need it.

…I guess I’ll hear the counterarguments now.

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Generally, the logic brick system is useful in small things, simple things like the ‘local’ movement of the movement bricks. This is far harder to do in Python and requires less previous education to use.

While, yes, we are choking on the number of bricks available, they are just a visual representation of what we can do in Python. Python requires a lot from users and makes simple games easier to develop.

What this ease of use for simple games means for the real users of the GameEngine (Python users), is that we become reliant on them and because of this, we are unable to do it with Python; case in point: The Add Object Actuator. It is clunky to use, the object added can’t be manipulated during the same frame (The object isn’t really created at the call of addActiveActuator), and it cannot be replaced by Python alone.

The logic brick system we have now is a limiter of ability. The idea of logic bricks, on the other hand, is a good one.

I agree with social that the logic brick system and the state system are pointless at the moment; if the logic brick system is broken, why use a state system to turn off what shouldn’t be used? But I also agree with every one else’s agruements: It does make everything easier for new users to understand, the state system does help cull logic brick use (just as python might group all commands under an “if run:”).

At the moment, logic bricks are flawed and so Python use is too. In order to have a truly high class game engine, logic bricks must either be overhauled or completely removed. I suggest overhaul. Give us the option to use all python or give us a better logic brick system that we can customize!

In response to the OP: Right now, Python is your best bet at making good games, as with most game engines in the world, you’ll need to program.

Some simple walk around demos have been made using all bricks, but they cannot have mouselook, rays, position checks, any kind of smart AI.

Learn some python. It really does help.

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@social uuuuuuuuuuh… well as you add more functions/logic bricks the complexity increases… and ease of use decreases. How easy do you need it to be? Making games by definition is ridiculously technical… making something simpler to use also reduces the functionality… You just can’t have both. That doesn’t mean it can’t be better.

If they didn’t make all the bricks then they wouldn’t be able to improve on them… . Now that there is a state machine the entire interface can be reworked to be nodes or however it needs to be in order to make it more manageable. (You clearly have the skills to cope with it??)

You are kinda asking for things backwards… first you want it mangeable then you want it functional…that’s not how most things get made, ever… the challenge is getting it working period, then improving on it… so in that sense the state machine is not pointless.

Now that we have a game developer, dissing him is a bit crap… and certainly won’t do much to motivate him to make things more manageable… so thanks. Also, thanks to the state machine we don’t all have to be as skilled as you to make FPS demo… now anyone can do it in 30-45 mins.

Any suggestions, instead of rants, on how to make the existing system interface better (because an new one from scratch is not going to happen)?