The comment chain on this video
Is the guy right?
2 Likes
The original poster that started the chain?
He’s not exactly wrong.
2 Likes
Hard surface topology is a very complex and precise field. I think it’s safe to assume that a “tutorial for beginners” isn’t up to production quality, just like a “Python for beginners” tutorial won’t teach you how to use Python in a high-paying data science job
4 Likes
To expand on this:
The issue with BlenderBros is not specifically how they choose to model. It is that they not only disregard well-known methods, but that they also actively teach that such methods are not important at all.
Their standard method of doing most anything is using a boolean. There is nothing, whatsoever, revolutionary nor unique about using booleans when poly modeling. This has been done for decades. Adding a bevel to the result - again, there is nothing brilliant about it.
However, there are reasons that expert modellers do not use these techniques for everything they do. These methods often result in topology that will cause shading errors, glitches in rendering, or other problems. Such problems can be minimized in various ways, or corrected - but one major way to avoid them is to not create bad topology in the first place.
BlenderBros completely ignores the reality of that last sentence, and when criticized for this - their response is usually a flavor of “Ok, Boomer.”
Their end result renders are often quite good; they have a good eye for a particular type of techy-looking design. (And if all you’re going to need is an aluminum material with a couple area lights, rendered as a still image - ok, you’re good to go. Otherwise? No.) It was exactly this, which prompted me to watch a view of their videos when I began using Blender (note: I wasn’t new to 3D at this time, merely Blender.)
I watched along as Josh made boolean after boolean, bevel after bevel. The whole time I was thinking “wow, ok… so, I guess Blender has some incredible tool that’s going to deal with all the crap that’s going to appear, once you flatten the modifier stack.”
Nope, Blender doesn’t. Josh just doesn’t care. He grabs an addon (use discount code #BBwhatever) that sort of cleans up some of the crap, then he proceeds to restitch random triangles together as patchwork. Shading problems? No problem, we’re going to BAKE it (because apparently baking is just magical, and solves all problems with topo).
It’s like saying “it’s ok to use duct tape to patch this up when you’re done”, instead of “if you don’t DO this, you won’t NEED duct tape.” Josh and Ryuurui consider duct tape and bondo to be perfectly suitable materials when doing metalwork… in fact, it’s worse than that. They believe (and teach) that tape and bondo are superior to metalworking methods that don’t use tape and bondo.
If one does wish to work this way - that’s fine, do your thing. But to put yourself out there as a qualified, expert teacher - and then demonstrate dubious technique as this is the way it should be done, all other techniques are dated, and people who use them are stupid … that’s just not cool, when your audience is a few thousand people who have no idea that what they’re being taught is often a bad habit.
20 Likes
Now I understand why I never liked their tutorials. It’s good for concepts and fast iterating but not final models.
Can you recommend artists teaching production modeling practices? Preferably in Blender but any other software will do too.
Would you recommend me a good channel for what you would consider the proper method for hard surface?
1 Like
To answer both Alexey and Baid - unfortunately, I’m not aware of any that I’d recommend, who do this sort of modeling with better technique.
Not because there aren’t any, simply because it’s not the type of content that I personally seek out on Youtube on a regular basis. The things I’ve seen in this area - I watched casually as a one-off, and don’t keep like - you know, a playlist or whatever of them.
So, perhaps others on the forum will be able to chime with better teaching, that they know of.
okay, then another question. DO these two do anything right? Like their Lighting or compositing videos?
If not, then im unsubbing right now
Also, Both CG Boost and CG Nity does these kinds of videos as well.
Can you take a look and say if they use the method you think is right or at least better?
Here’s a link for CGnity
I took a quick dive through Youtube to see what I could find, and it looks like almost everyone is using booleans for hardsurface stuff these days. I’m sure I could find a quad only tutorial with a bit more effort, but still, that’s surprising.
Yeah, that one’s a bit more traditional.
Its not a coincidence neither stylistic choice that they only do “Sci-Fi” abstract designs. Their modeling workflow cant make anything practical and precise.
Not to mention how often they either lie about Blenders built-in functionality, or avoid talking about it to push their addons. It seems thats the only thing they do actually.
Watch their latest 20 minute video on bevels, guy goes over bevel properties and doesnt have a clue what either of them does, simply brushes off “why is this even here, its pointless” on settings that are crucial for proper modeling.
8 Likes
Christopher3D. Check that guy out. 100/100 teacher and correct modeling information you’ll not find anywhere else on Blender Youtube
12 Likes
I follow him already. He already taught me so much!
Honest answer - and it will sound like I’m being snarky, but I’m not.
I mentioned above that their renders look nice (for what they are), but I’ve been doing compositing for … awhile… and see nothing in their vid previews that tells me “Hey, this looks interesting - what’s that about?”
Hopefully their techniques in this area aren’t as sketchy…
So - TLDR: They might have something worth watching there, if someone knows very little about the subject. I’m not in that demographic.
2 Likes
and unsubbed!
thanks.
@thorn Well put.
I haven’t heard of BlenderBros before myself, but between watching the haphazard modeling techniques displayed in that video and how the tutorial creator responds to viable critique in a rather robotic overworked male aggressive condescending manner while invoking the words “woke” and “pink” to negate any possible empathy for either the other parties critiquing his work nor trying to understand himself, I can only shake my head in sadness and walk away.
7 Likes
Gym bros of Blender Youtube
1 Like
its a shame too. because their discord is FILLED with people who are ready to help you at a moments notice.
feels like the discord is more useful that their channel and website
I have noticed that myself. In my view it is a case of “you don’t know what you don’t know”. The myriad of modeling tools and workflows available nowadays tend to obscure foundational technique somewhat.
I mean: it’s not an issue when used in the concept phase and/or when the result is re-modeled / retopologized properly afterwards. But I do see beginners missing out on fundamental polygonal modeling techniques and strategies - more than compared to only a decade ago. My experience taught me that some beginners actively reject to learn basic modeling technique and expect booleans to create good topology “out of the box”. (And it may in the future with genAI moving forward in 3D asset generation.)
The quick and dirty modeling on display makes sense in a short video like this: a relatively nice looking hard-surface model quickly built using shoddy modeling technique in 30 minutes time is far more attractive than 3 hours of demonstrating how to model with quads in mind and keep subdivision nice looking. All the while ending up with a model that looks less impressive.
Instant gratification and monetization is their goal (that BlenderBro as much admitted to it in his abrasive comments), not proper workmanship. He is interested in attracting viewers, even to the point of utilizing negativity to increase exposure.
This very thread is what he craves. Bad exposure, good exposure - it doesn’t matter from his perspective. He doesn’t care about modeling technique at al: that’s the proverbial red herring here.
7 Likes
They mostly do concept modeling. They don’t make it especially clear that most of the time that is what they’re showing and a beginner certainly isn’t going to understand. As far as I know, Ponte has a ton of experience in the game industry. However, I mainly stopped following them because Ponte is so damn toxic about everything.