I think Windows users stick with Windows mostly because their software will only run correctly, or with best performance on Windows. I’d be using Linux Mint or some other distro if most of the software I use for work didn’t depend on Windows. I get the feeling that although many Mac users use apps that only run on Mac OS, they wouldn’t like to switch to Windows if the option was available because let’s be honest, Windows is quite crap. It’s gotten way better in terms of stability etc. over the years, but the important user facing parts never seem to improve, although they do change from time to time.
Aside from software, the main thing that keeps me away from Macs is the lack of choice; Everything comes from the same vendor, and although it might be good, Apple has no competition because Macs are treated like some kind of separate thing from a PC, and the only device that can reliably run Mac OS is a Mac. This means that once your are dependent on software that only works on Mac OS, you just have to pay what Apple is asking, and if they decide to sacrifice upgradable components or a usable keyboard in the name of having the thinnest machine, then you either have to suck it up, or buy an older model because nobody else can sell you one. Aside from a few months when I had a Macbook Pro some years ago, I’ve never been an Apple user, but I had similar issues feeling like I was getting locked into Thinkpad because I was so into the keyboards, despite the many flaws of the hardware Lenovo was choosing, or the prices they were charging.
I just hope that Linux etc. can be made to run on M1 chips in the future without just running in a VM from Mac OS, and also that there will be hardware that can challenge M1 performance that is available to other manufacturers. I think both will happen, but it will be interesting to see how much of a performance edge Apple are able to have by controlling everything (and being a massively rich company and employing some of the smartest engineers in the world).
For what it’s worth, I really love the tech Apple is creating. I love more power efficient ARM vs. x86. The newest M1 chip looks amazing.
I just don’t love Apple.
They create expensive electronics that has a pre-defined life cycle, you can’t easily repair, alter or reprogram. They on purpose create incompatible interfaces in order not to become a commodity. The newest Macs seem to have no upgrade options. It’s either the Apple way or high-way. You either accept that Apple collar around your neck or go elsewhere. Try buying just the smart watch, can’t do. You need at least an iPhone. Try creating iPhone apps, you need a Mac. They want to control the entire ecosystem and will go to any lengths to achieve that.
As a user, I don’t like the power to use my hardware being controlled by the company. I want the power over the hardware I paid money for.
With both Windows and Linux you have a lot of more options. You can run both in a VM without problems. Not so with Apple. You can even install Windows on a Raspberry Pi.
It’s still always a choice between compromises.
With Linux you pay with your time (a lot of it, let’s be honest) and various headaches where you have to fix things from the command line. Other than that, it’s great.
With Windows you don’t really know what information Microsoft is gathering. I think Windows 10 is fine and don’t really understand what peoples problem with it is outside the horrible interface mess when they tried to go the tablet route. Just use Classic Shell as start menu and it will be fine.
With Apple I can’t really build software without heavy limitations of paying Apple money for the privilege to create value for their users. Already at that point I’m going to say goodbye. There are many other issues, but already at that point I’m gone.
Maybe in the future Apple will improve. I would really love to have a working Unix system that had as good hardware and software. That would really be a dream come true. I’m just not willing to pay the price in freedom of being chained from the neck to a system.
while i also find the M1 nice i don’t really get the hype. especially not for using it for 3d rendering. performance/watt ratio is better but not like 2x better. not by far. and once the imac and mac pro version is out performance/price ratio still will be much better for x86 pcs.
Apple is on TSMC 5nm, has much better performance/watt and has been improving their perf numbers faster than x86. It might be that Apple hardware is simply better than x86 in the future.
The problem with the integrated memory solution however seems to be that it’s very difficult to have more than 16GB memory (I’ve heard).
All valid points. In the end it just comes down to personal preference.
When I worked with Mac, I loved the seamless ecosystem and the solid symbiosis between quality hardware and comfortable OS. No fiddling with hardware drivers that need to be downloaded and updated separately, no real concerns regarding malware, etc…
When Apple ceased OpenGL, OpenCL and NVIDIA GPU support, I rediscovered the freedom, much larger software base and Blender-friendliness of a Windows PC.
Now I’m following the M1 / Apple silicon news with lots of interest, and I feel my interest in a possible return to Mac increase again. Looking forward to the specs and benchmarks of the 2021 iMacs.
I had an Air from 2012 to 2016, which was a very productive time with Blender and all kinds of 2D and 3D apps. Sure, I reached the limits of the hardware, had then a disappointing MBP, switched to Windows. My current workstation is fast, but loud. The Thinkpad I also use is fine, but loud and hot. The great keyboard doesn’t make up for the terrible battery life. So I still like to remember that I used to toss my old MBA into the bag, forget the charger and just work for almost a day.
Today I know that pure rendering performance is secondary - to me. Having a quiet machine on which I can draw all day, do some 3D work and still have enough battery to watch an hour or two of tutorials - that sounds like a great proposition.
Heck, the new Air even runs ZBrush like a champ. That isn’t native yet.
As some here are referring to freedom: it has many aspects. Choosing the tool and the platform are two of them.
I had a late-2013 iMac, the last model with an NVIDIA GPU. It ran everything quite smoothly, and after transitioning to a state-of-the-art PC rig in early 2019, featuring a much more powerful, desktop-grade processor and GeForce GPU, I discovered that ZBrush did not run as smoothly as it did on my iMac. I saw some screen refresh glitches during navigation, and some delays when working with high-poly meshes (I’m writing in the past tense because I’m solely using Blender currently). I guess the fine-tuned balance between hardware and OS (maybe also the Unix kernel) goes a long way. This is also apparent with the new Apple chipset.
What you are forgetting to account for in there is that most everything you store in your gpu memory right now also has to be duplicated in cpu memory. In a unified memory system no duplication of data has to happen so less redundancy.
Not that it’s necessarily perfect or anything but that should alleviate things some.
edit:
This. I recon the same, yes. Cycles isn’t blender but rather more like a plugin bundled with blender and it is entirely conceivable that while blenders drawing to screen can be done fine with MoltenVK without need for compute, Cycles can simply have a integrator/code-path specifically just to support GPGPU/HW accelerated rendering via Metal.
Given a developer actively maintaining it after developing it in the first place that is.
Grrrr…this type of reasoning makes me so frustrated and sad. It’s all a “walled garden”, that is the premise of IP and corporations. MS, Nvidia, Sony, Epic, etc. they all have “walled garden” policies in place. The only reason why people seem to overlook those instances is because (at the. moment) they’re working for them. Nvidia in particular are just as douchy as Apple when it comes to their proprietary technology, and quite honestly just as overpriced. If most people knew just how much profit Nvidia makes on their GPU’s, they would be outraged. The problem is that nobody does parts breakdown/cost analysis on a 3080 like they typically do on iPhones and Apple computers.
Ok…I think I’m done ranting for this morning – carry on!
No thats a hard way of going about the problem because its more cost for the user, more power and complexity for the overall system and the SOCs need to support multiprocessing which might not be the case currently with ARM chips.
A much easier way is to call the 16GB SOC memory an L4 cache and have DDR4 RAM on a motherboard. its either that or they use more expensive parts like HBM3 that can sit next to the SOC and stack upto 64GB.
Some inkling of good news concerning eGPUs and the M1. Would be nice to let the iGPU handle all on screen graphics and let the eGPU, with a new Big Navi card, sit on the desk and do all the computing for Blender.
My guess is that it’s a feature that isn’t turned on YET for the M1, maybe because the 6000 series cards are out in the wild and drivers for Big Sur aren’t ready yet.
Only guessing once again, but once the the drivers are ready in Big Sur then this function will be turned on for the OG M1 chips.
Hey! I am looking to get the MacBook Pro M1 for studies and some Cycles rendering. I saw a video on YouTube showing that cycles was not supported and crashed? Is this just because he used an unsupported version?
A couple of guys here already have one and have been running some test with Cycles. (Several Post Above)
So my guess is that the Youtube video was with an older version of Blender; even the Non Arm Blender versions that are being converted to ARM through Rosetta are able to render right now,
I dunno. All i can say is that the tech reviewers are talking about how the M1 can on the fly convert any X86 code over to ARM, think of it as an emulation type thing tho. It results in anywhere from a 20% - 50% performance loss by doing this rather than having the software be natively coded for ARM instruction set.
Oh, and last question. Would you suggest downloading the alpha version for macs or just the regular 2.90. Read through all of the replies and didn’t see anyone comparing the two.
So as a total guess, the M1 will run Blender in emulation mode and if folk like it then in the long term Blender developers could set about compiling a version natively for ARM instruction set.
