macOS is deprecating openGL

I hope Apple read this Thread. Apple has the money to buy states and they have the money to support Blender MacUser for 100 years. Do it Apple!!! :frowning:

Apple must pay its investors :wink:

Apple and the new Mac Pro. The fastest Mac, but not for Mac Blender users. :frowning:

So crazy!

Why is the new Mac not the fastest for Blender users?

Is it because Blender is not optimised to run on Metal?

You can’t officially run Nivdia Graphic Cards under macOS. Only with Nivdia, you get the full speed for Blender. :frowning:

Ah … Damn.

I would be very surprised if Nvidia doesn’t drop some drivers for their cards for macOS. They do it already. The new Mac Pro also has the power connectors and PCIe slots to connect any card so there is no reason (other than cost) why you couldn’t drop an Nvidia card in the machine as long as Nvidia releases some drivers.

Apple has no love for Nvidia so don’t hold your breath on them “officially” supporting their cards anytime soon. That doesn’t mean they are not supported, just not by Apple directly.

the reality is that Mac owners who want to use GPUs and applications at their best … install windows or linux … :sweat_smile:

Apple’s products are now fashion stuff for VIPs,
even “grand touring supercars”, but no longer “racing cars” …

I believe Apple is introducing a new driver and system extension model in its latest version of macOS. That might be a factor in the nVidia drivers issue, too.

Makes me wonder about compatibility layer between Vulkan and Metal. If you can write Vulkan code for MacOS easily, this should be a non-issues really outside software that will not upgrade from OpenGL.

Wondering where all of this is converging. Apple being rumored of replacing Intel CPUs with their own ARM variants. Unifying MacOS, iPadOS, iOS.

The processor in the latest iPad Pro is really amazing and I could easily see it being used inside a desktop. A more open MacOS (yes I know, won’t happen) with the Apples next-gen ARM processor inside a MacBook would really be close to an ideal dev machine. A Unix system with a great user experience and everything working seamlessly together, 17 hour battery life and performance comparable to Intel i7 processors.

If Apple plays their cards right, I see them taking a much bigger chunk of the desktop market. The question is: will they even want to?

What will probably happen is that Windows running on ARM (for example Qualcomm 8cx) will be that device for me in the future. Even if they are behind Apple by at least two iterations.

I tried Windows at work and it isn’t so bad anymore. A few gripes but most of the software I want is there. The font smoothing is horrendous though.

Apple really have their heads up their butts at the moment with their pricing and policies towards opensource.

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Agreed. In the mean time I’ve returned to a Windows 10 system, and I’m quite content. :slightly_smiling_face:

I’d suggest that no one is particularly looking “to take a bigger share of the desktop market,” because that’s really very small. Microsoft wants to own every business, using its Windows® OS as the foundation layer of a vertically-integrated suite of business software that is their real bread and butter. Likewise, Apple targets the professional markets – A/V, sound, cinema – and once again it sells professional applications to them.

Mac sales have been in decline for years–that’s why Apple has stopped reporting unit-shipment numbers. Those who are still using them should note the writing on the wall.

Also note that Microsoft is getting more and more of its business from Linux systems–they have admitted for a while now that their Azure cloud runs more Linux instances than Windows ones. They are including a Linux kernel in Windows 10 in an attempt to attract developers to continue developing on Windows while deploying on Linux.

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Blender 2.80 has been released. Now I completely switched to Linux/Windows. macOS cries and shakes its head over Apple. Apple, the richest company on earth loses its PowerUser.

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Thats just not true at all. Macs moved into the #4 slot for world wide laptops sales in 2018 and is expected to pass Dell in 2019.

You’re confusing operating systems verses hardware. Only one computer company uses MacOS vs the thousands of others that use Windows.

This is also the reason why an entry level MacBook can render video footage twice as fast as a windows desktop with two Nvidia 1080’s.
Hardware and software optimization is soooooooooooo much more critical than brute force power.

The video I link to is from a diehard Windows channel, but even he realizes why the underpowered MacBook just dusted his desktop! I like the part where he looks at the screen like “WTF just happened”.
There are tons of these comparisons videos out there and even some with Davinci Resolve being used instead the Apple’s native Final Cut program.

I’m hardware agnostic, I’ll always use the tool that’s best for the job.
Disclaimer: I use Blender on Windows in Bootcamp on a Mac cause it’s works better than the Mac OS version. But I can dream for the day…
Now imagine if the Blender Foundation wrote a Mac only version of Blender!!!

I think it would literally take apple giving the foundation a grant with the condition that the money go towards developing a metal based version of blender. The devs don’t want to slit their efforts by maintaining versions of blender built on two different apis with maybe cycles being the exception (supposedly the code-base was built for supporting multiple apis).

I mean, that was the whole point in using openGL instead of directX or whatever. They wanted to only have to worry about one api for this stuff. Vulkan more or less meets their criteria for this because moltenVK exists.

The issues with blender on mac OS comes from apple’s poor support for openGL. I personally think all these issues will go away once the foundation completely switches to using vulkan. We probably don’t need a full metal based version of blender in order to fix the issues people have with blender on mac OS.

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man don’t be trickster.
this video is three years old.
three years is half geological era in computer science.
make comparisons with something recently … :upside_down_face:

I’ve quietly read through the conversations here and I stay patiently optimistic about the whole “Vulcan” integration, and I do realize, understandably, the strain it would put on the devs, almost to the point of realizing that it’s just not going to happen anytime soon.

And on that note, I would love to see one day a complete MacOS version, and not just a “Metal” or “Vulcan” MacOS port, something that is truly written and streamlined for MacOS. Trim away all the fat and optimize it for one single line of computers! Maybe even drops the windows version :stuck_out_tongue:
Unfortunately, I think that would actually take a privately funded independent team of, “coupla hard, pipe-hittin’, die-hard MacOS devs who’ll go to work on Blender here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch.” to paraphrase Marsellus Wallace, and do a complete rewrite from head to toe.

As of now it’s all just dreams… but one can dream. :slight_smile:

I know it’s a few years old but, this presenter is very knowledgable and explains the argument very well, and from the side of a Windows user. The theme of Apple’s optimization rings true no matter what era of hardware we are in and it’s has only gotten more powerful in recent times. But you can find plenty of current reviews stating the same thing, just not as well as this presenter.
As more programs do a MacOS version optimization is becoming more and more apparent. As I stated earlier, Davinci Resolve as a Mac version runs considerably better than it’s counter part Windows version.

Don’t get me wrong, the lack of support for the most powerful graphics hardware, Nividia, is frustrating, but I see where Apple is going with this. I would love to see a Apple open back up to Nividia, but I think it’s going to take Nividia rewriting there graphics language to something more modern. :slight_smile:

Optimized MacOS, streamlined Blender, Nividia cards… no one would buy a windows computer to use Blender. lol