Maya, is it worth the money?

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1

Same question as over the summer, but now I’m more educated about 3D software in general, and I would like to add something more to my arsenal. So far I have experience with Blender(have made a recent return to it) and Max.
But first I need some more info before I drop $380 on its Student Version from JourneyEd:

  1. How’s the UV mapping? Is it any good?
  2. Is it dying? (Autodesk-Alias buyout)
  3. How would experience with it look on my resume?
  4. Does it have a good animation system? I know its weight painting looks almost as good as Blender’s, and Max’s…sucks. But what of its IK or rigging systems?
  5. Do most plug-ins, like Exporters, work effectively most of the time?
  6. Is MEL scripting hard?
  7. What about Hair/Fur? Does it take a long time to render, like Max’s, or is it very short, like Blender’s Static Particles?
  8. How is it to register? I heard it’s a b*** to authorize.
  9. Last but not least, what’s it Physics system like? Max’s takes place in the Reactor room while Blender’s uses its game engine. How does Maya’s compare to either one of those?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with the decision. :wink:

2

Only benefit of learning Maya is for your resume, take that however you like :wink:

3

Hi ya

This is what I think of Maya, and it’s what I learnt to 3D on for about 18 months!

UV mapping is, reportedly, alot better as of 6+, and is supposedly vewry good, but I;m a NURBS man, and the Nurbs tools rock!

I think the Autodesk buyout is one of the worst things that could have happened to maya (but great for Max!)- it’s like Paint shop pro buying photoshop, escept there is so much more difference between Max and Maya. But only time will tell… (apparently Autodesk sacked a whole lot of Alias workers quite soon after the buyout, which isn’t a good start.)

Maya is the single most revered 3d package in terms of experience (on 3drender.com, there is a poll on this). Indeed, Gnomon only teaches Maya because the industry: feels that if you can learn Maya you can learn any package. I think they’re right, too!

Maya’s animation is second to none- pure bliss to work with. The whole painting setup- weight, modelling, texturing, soft body, and pretty much anything else- is far above blender’s, but that’s not to denegrade or disrespect blender’s developers atall- they do such an excellent job, and attribute painting isn’t a common feature in many packages. In Maya 7, full body IK is in from Motion Builder, which is a way cool weay to rig quad- and bi-peds, but the normal IK system rocks- very flexible!

There are many industry and shareware plugins and scripts around. SOme of which are VERY powerful.

MEL scriping is one of the best things about Maya, it’s like a cross between Bash and C- totally extensible. If you are slightly intelligent and at all interested in it, MEL scripting should be easy to start off with.

Haven’t used hair and fur much, but it is much more suited than Blender’s static particles. It is naturally dynamic and works well with most any thing I’ve tried (not much). The cloth engine is supposed to be very good too.

I used the PLE edition, so I can’t answer this. I do know that Alias take security seriously though, as does Autodesk and most anyone else.

The physics system, by this I mean rigid and soft bodies, particles, fluids, and all of those, is excellent in my experience. The particles are what I experiemtned with most, and they’re very flexible and extensible.

Some more things to note:
The shader builder (hypershade) is a pleasure to use. It has lots and lots of useful nodes, and can even handle animation.
The expression editor to handle procedural animation (and more) is a real coup de grace, and is one of the thing I think Blender needs so badly.

If you’re nopt sure about maya, download the PLE (250 MB), and give it a go. They have great tutorials with the PLE too.

By the way, I don’t work for Alias or Autodesk, but I just have a very high opion of Maya. I think it teaches 3d the right way- form the ground up, with complete control. Sure, it is quite complex, and can take a while to understand, but Maya unlimited, is, in my opinion, unlimited.

I will also say that I am currewntly using Blender, partly because I don’t have the need or Dollars for Maya right now, and also because I don’t like the philosophy of commercial software. I think Blender is probably the best 3D software around, because of value, function, community and philosophy, But maya comes a close second!

I apologise if I have upset anyone, particularly Max users.

Cheers
DT

4

Maya was the first 3d animation package I had experience with, personally I think it was a bad idea to start out in Maya knowing so little as I did at the time, I was overwhelmed by the size an scope of the package.
But it sounds like you have lots more experience than I did then! So I think it would be worth it, mainly because it is industry standard.
And as another post above this said, if you can learn Maya, you can learn any 3d pacakge!
Jonny

5

I agree with the previous post that Maya is a fantastic tool. However, if your paying out your own pocket…

I get to use Maya at work. Otherwise I would still be blending happily away. My suggestion is keep on blending. Maya might be good on a resume but, usually it looks better to have a job along with the software experience. You should be able to make a fine looking work with Blender. And to be truthfull, I learn the most about 3D because I want to discover more. It is a curiosity that goes beyond what I am asked to do for work–although I probably don’t have the greatest CG job.

Also imagine that every year there comes an upgrade and for Maya complete that is nearly a $1,000 and after 2 versions you can nolonger upgrade.

6

Also imagine that every year there comes an upgrade and for Maya complete that is nearly a $1,000 and after 2 versions you can nolonger upgrade.

And this sort of thing will get worse now Autodesk owns it (just look at the way Max is updated and marketed- not even a learning edition!).

This is why I rate Maya second to Blender!

DT

7

Well, here is my opinion.
Currently I amusing Maya in school and have been doing so for about 2 years (got in to Blender a year and a half ago) and in my opinion the one thing that Blender “wins” on against Maya is stability. Maya seems to have these bad days when the only thing it wants to do is craching :wink: .
And to answer your questions:

  1. I seriously disslike UV-mapping and don’t do it much so I don’t feel I’m in a possition to do a good comparrison between them here.
  2. It’s always hard to speculate about things like this but personally I don’t think Autodesk will kill Maya, Maya is just to big for it to be killed.
  3. Yes, maya is the best 3d program to have on your resume, where as Blender means basicaly nothing on your resume.
  4. With weightpainting one thing Maya has that I realy miss in Blender is that its paintbrush is kindof 3d, it forms after the geometry where as Blenders brush is flat wich makes it harder to get to those hard to reach places (hmmm… that sounded kind of wrong…)
    Mayas rigging system is also a whole lot better than blenders and offer more possibilitys (altough i fin it easyer to aply constraints in Blender).
  5. plug-ins
  6. I seriously don’t know. We have MEL scripting in school but our teacher in that subject is seriously crappy, the only thing shes good at is killing my motivation to learn MEL.
  7. I haven’t used hair and fur much, I think it only works in Maya unlimited.
    8 ) ?
  8. Haven’t had time to learn this so I can’t comment on it.

Maya is better in Blender in just about every way and that is way Maya and not Blender is the standard in just about every movie production that uses 3d. This may sound like I’m dissing blender but that is wrong. I like Blender and I do infact go against my teachers recomendations and use blender and other opensource programs now in my end project (dont know the right word for this in english :frowning: ).
I think what program you chose is about the goals you have. If you want to work with movies and animation you should learn maya, game companys generaly use Max (since they feel Maya is to expensive and dont want to pay for funktions they won’t use). Me personally have started using mostly Blender now since I feel it have most things I need and Maya in my opinion is of overkill for me and the animations I do. I know I won’t be getting any jobb with Blender knowlage (exept mayby as an animator since the animatin part is more or less the same in most systems) but I like to be a bit unrealistic and I’m shooting for opening my own animation studio using Blender as 3d tool and going for opensource as far as I can (altough I’m probably gonna have to buy a compositor since there arn’t any good opensource :frowning: ).

Hope I’we written at least something helpfull!

8

Thanks for all the help, guys. :smiley: This’ll make my decision a little easier for when I get the money to buy it.

9

This is to klepoth, about compositors,

there is cinepaint, which is a photoshop type device for image sequences. (www.cinepaint.org I think)

Wax, which is like after effects and quite good (www.debugmode.com) and also winmorph (quite powerful)

Jahshaka (www.jahshaka.org), which was quite crap, but a goodf build is due out 31/3/6 - with nodes!!!)

And ZS4, which I don/t like, but is very popular (www.zs4.net)

I too thought that there weren’t very good ones out there, but a combination of the above dose most of what I need.

Sure they aren’t a shake, Fusion, flame, or even AFX, but nor is Blender Maya, as you say.

Good luck,

DT

10

I thought it was a joke that Autodesk was bying maya… whatever… :-? :wink:

11

I would like to buy Silo + Zbrush for myself (just wishing that mayby someday they will port those for linux too :slight_smile: )

Blender gives almost everything what I need with animation (except. Particles should have more options in my opinion.) But i really think that is just matter of “short” time when blender takes another step to close commercial 3D softwares ( Thanks to developers ). Developing speed is so fast that if we keep us close together i really believe that blender will be VERY reasonable product for commercial use (pointing bigger studios) in near future… in fact it is already, but I just wanted point word “VERY” :wink:

So I would think very carefully, before putting money for it (of cource if you are rich and not have worries about empty wallets :slight_smile: ). What is your needs? What blender/max(assuming that you have already lisence for it) doesnt give you?

3D has same disease what is on musicians. More you have, better you are. Better quitar, better player :slight_smile:
I really dont believe thats true (sometimes I think too that should i put money for Maya because i have seen nice movies and great pictures what has been done with maya, but results are same. Those who has maded those great CG effects in movies or pictures, can made with other softwares too. Marketing people is just screwing around with you :slight_smile:

And the BIGGEST question is: What is suitable for you? thats only matters.

12

True. i never believe a software is behind all those wowie jaw dropping flicks or cool artwork. If one never touches 3D, giving him/her a super sophisticated idiot-proof software won’t do any good either. It’s never been about the software, softwares are just tool. I’m no big time animator ever created a masterpiece, but that’s what i think.

For personal use, blender is more than enough IMHO. But for work, that depends on what your team uses. Blender is just losing from marketing campaign, from those 3D giants. Yeah there’re alot of neat stuffs in those commercial 3D softwares, which are absent in Blender, but the main question is do you really need them?

I learn blender because I think it has a very bright future, more like Linux VS windows stuff. Perhaps linux can’t throw microsoft position out from its end user desktop throne, but microsoft already consider linux a threat. And I don’t dream working for other people forever. The main charm of this commercial value side is I can upgrade blender without paying those subscription bullshit every period of time, get new features without registering or whatever. The main charm of functionality, blender already provides everything i need. Tech support? Hmmm. Never even bother about them. Blender? We got elysiun here.

I got this job which forces me to use XSI learning it making me more realizes that nowadays most 3D softwares are not much different one another. Compared to max, which I’ve been using from the start, sure some got its pluses and minuses, but it’s a little insignificant. Like XSI is more stable than max, where max crashes often maybe at least twice a day, XSI perhaps only once for 3 days. But I miss some features from max also. So the final choise is actually your preferences.

13

I totally agree with lycanthrope.

For personal use, blender is more than enough IMHO. But for work, that depends on what your team uses.

btw. I forgot mention that :slight_smile: Thats very important if you are like animator. If you are modeller you can use almost every app in market and off market, because ability to export meshes/UV’s (of cource unless company or team is forcing you to use specific software). 3D industry is totally based on team work.

example by myself:
I have 6-8 years experience in 3Dsmax and now i have switched to blender (6 months for now). Why? Blender has teached me more in 6 months than 3Dsmax has in 4-5 years (and here comes what is my needs and what is suitable for me. Blender UI is more than perfect to me and I have made my decision with those criterias). How ever, trying other softwares too (more than 12 months) they havent make me any better artist than I am. Specialised softwares like Wings3D what is just specialised for modelling, haven’t make me better modeller but it has been made me much faster modeller. There is diffrence between artist and fastness. Softwares isnt making me better artist but may help me with many areas.
I preffer specialised softwares because of tools and “cheapness” rather than buy big software with every areas included (Again , those are just what is my needs :slight_smile: ) get the point? :smiley:

If you are just growing your arsenal , i preffer you to get more likely specialiced softwares rather than Big Giant softwares :wink: Learning curve is faster and they are more flexible between bigger softwares.

correct me if Im wrong or just talking bullshit :wink: . I like to talk when I have opinion :smiley:

14

I agree with what the last posters have said, but I want to point out that where I see the real advantage of Maya over every other 3D software (disregarding the price), is that once you konw haow to use it properly, it can help you to acheive anything, and quickly.

A big animation/VFX shop, which has moey to spend on training and good hardware, can’t then afford to have an inefficient workflow. That would cost them tons.

Also, Maya is 100% extensible- open arcetechture (bad spelling- sorry!!). So if you’ve got a R&D team, which all big studios do, you can alsop build anything to help expand it.

However, for the home animator/VFX guy (like me), poor hobbiest (also me), and believer in social equity (me also), Blender is Ideal.

I also doubt that there is technical support anywhere in the universe even half as good as elYsiun, even when you pay for a $2 - 3K maintenance contract.

PS- Blender needs Nodes (i know they are coming), and a procedural animation engine. Also, EVERYTHING can be keyed in Maya, and I mean EVERYTHING, you can’t know how useful this is unjtil you’ve used it!

Cheers
DT.

15

IMO Max and Maya are more suited for Movie Production (because of handling of multi-million poly meshes). I started learning Max version 7
and since everything is done with Mouse(Point-n-Click %| ) my hands started paining after every half hour. I returned back to Blender and am happy with it and now i have completed Manual and into scripting.
I think Max is just that eye-candy software where you can Point-and-Click
on a Cube icon and make a cube and be happy with this forever. In
Blender u have to learn to press “Space Bar” to access a Cube Mesh.
I had my trysts with Blender and Max and Blender is certainly better
than as far as MeshModelling,CharacterModelling and Animation (say
cartoon movies) are concerned.
For creating Special effects in Movies , certainly , Max is the way to
go.But , if developers add the million poly handling functionality
and GLSL support to it in future , Blender will be definitely better than
others.Because then Blender will have the Power of Max and Flexibility
of Maya.

16

I think all softwares are good for any kind of projects. Some says Max are dominant in the game market. But actually it’s used in movie productions. Some says Maya are the king of visual effects, but game industry also uses maya.

Some people I know really pesimistic about blender usability. Funny enough, it is more likely because of its price. “Because it’s free then they don’t develop it seriously” or “don’t have any support” or “minimal facilities” blahblah. Then orange came out, their mouth suddenly shut in silence, but still insisting using the those kind of arguments. Heh, do I really live among stubborn people.

Some people I know still said hey XSI used in brother’s grimm, hey maya used for Final Fantasy, hey max used for splinter cell, Hey max used for the warcraft cinematics. blahblahblah. I hate those kind of sayings. yeah right, but those are blown up marketing campaign. I too fall for these kind of BS back then.

See for yourself, I think big, major companies don’t rely on specific softwares, instead they use anything they can afford and supply their team to whatever helps them. Blizzard uses both maya and max, who knows perhaps they also uses lightwave, truespace and more. Or perhaps even silently, Blender.

To make it simple, if you don’t know how to use the tool, won’t even matter even you had the $17000 houdini as your 3D arsenal. Again, for personal preference, it’s all about your knowledge of the tool, that is the software. But if you work for a company, it’s about what they give you to use.

For creating Special effects in Movies , certainly , Max is the way to
go.But , if developers add the million poly handling functionality
and GLSL support to it in future , Blender will be definitely better than
others.Because then Blender will have the Power of Max and Flexibility
of Maya.

this is I very agree. It is what makes opensource softwares really good. It takes every good stuffs out from each softwares and trying to get rid of the baddies with an addition of fresh ideas thrown in. It listens to people. For the matter of facility, seeing how fast blender has developed it wont be too long until blender matches the industry giants such as max and maya.

But what I really want to see more in blender is overpowering both in the matter of stability and performance, not facility. I don’t want to see blender to what happens to emacs for example, which being to overpowerful so it’s lost its direction. For simple text editor it’s too powerful. For other stuffs such as programming, already IDEs out there.

17

Gonna respond to my post. I’m getting deeper into Blender again, even deeper than I had when I first discovered it last year…I’m weighing the pros and cons of Maya…and guess what? I think Blender is almost equal to Maya.

Since what I want to do isn’t exactly a Dreamworks-quality animation, I’m still thinking, do I really need it? I’m not even creating million-poly models; the most polys I’ve ever had in a scene are approximately 100 000. Plus, my computer’s not even powerful enough to handle more before it gets massive slowdown. And with Blender’s Nodal Shaders coming around along with possible libraries and other improvements, I may just delay Maya until I actually need it.

But thank you for the replies, I have learned a lot more from them. Now I know more about a variety of programs. And I just saved myself $$$$. :smiley:

18

Im very happy that you have thought that seriously. Believe me , you are getting even more deeper into blender nowon.

Since what I want to do isn’t exactly a Dreamworks-quality animation, I’m still thinking, do I really need it?

I believe you want and “need” that :slight_smile: but quess what? Do it with blender :smiley: its not bad to have big goals in learning curve, you just have to have tiny goals also (like baby steps), else you may fustrate and you get confused, then comes blaiming softwares etc, rather than going to yourself whats wrong :slight_smile: ) I have done that! :slight_smile:
Enjoy compleating with tiny goals and remember "keep " mistakes on your projects. You dont have to fix those immidietly but remember to think what would fix those mistakes and make those notes in blend file with wonderfull text editor you have with blender. Make real analysis your work what have you done wrong and remember make notes also, what you have done good). Do not shame your “mistakes”! thats my advice for you :). WARNING: With real commercial or just community project forget those advices (dont leave mistakes purpose!) :smiley: this advice is only for your own projects and when making something, not so meaningfull.
(i know leaving mistakes in your projects may hard to perfectinist but I really believe that will help you to archive your primary goal faster.)

Hope this helps you. If not , mayby this helps somebody else then :slight_smile: . Also remember some may disagree with this and I may be wrong, but this works with me but may not be suitable for all. Everyone should try everything and making/mixing knowledge and do what is suitable for self.

tell me if I lost the point of topic too much :smiley: (I was just assuming you have same problem what I had serveral years and months ago :slight_smile: ).

19

oops sorry wrong topic

20

blender is free! im broke!

seriously though, how is the UI/workarea/program organization and design compared to blender?

-theblenderboy