BTW, I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to consider changing a feature because beginners have a problem with it. 
What’s required is that they take the time to learn it.
Perhaps but the fact remains that very similar gestures do different things. If there’s anything that confuses a newbie it’s inconsistency.
That video could be 10 times shorter. Two minutes to show moving stuff around with the right-mouse. :eek:
I doubt that very much for reasons to follow.
If you turn on the translate widget and click exactly in the middle of the white circle, does it drag the object like you expect? No, it engages the gestures, which means I have to hit escape to undo it. Sure, I could try and not hit the centre but it’s not always easy.
Probably the biggest issue I have with both the widgets and the gestures is that they use left-click. I use the cursor a lot and I hate when I accidentally click somewhere and the action isn’t captured where it’s supposed to be and it moves the cursor. Sure you can hit ctrl-z but that closes all the scripts.
Another problem with the widget is that if you click near one of the arrows while in the circle, it uses the arrow. All clicks inside the circle should do a 3D translate.
Double-click should move the cursor.
But there should be a user preference about whether you want left drag to enable gestures or do a box select. Of course, if there was a toolbox like in Cinema4D, you could switch without a user preference. You just click the option and select which action you want it to do:
hmm. i’ve never used widget like that, but i tried… and didnt get the same results. it didnt’ start drawing gestures, it starts to translate along one axis. anyway, when i use widget, i usually want to move on certain direction only, and i use the arrows.
Probably the biggest issue I have with both the widgets and the gestures is that they use left-click.
and if they would change it to right click there would be people shouting “all the other apps use left mouse button for drawing and dragging” 
Sure you can hit ctrl-z but that closes all the scripts.
this is problem with undo system.
i hate that too, and this is why i never use any gui scripts really.
solution is not using undo. but one gets so easily used to having one nowadays.
.b
With several ways of doing the same thing, there can be a progression in the way they are learned. A new user wants to feel like he is in control of the software, and mouse gestures remove some of that control.
Samir mentioned the “numerous impatient computer users who do that hyper caffeinated clicky-draggy thing all over your screen and hope that the software somehow figures out what you meant by it … well, you do know you’re not really supposed to be doing that, don’t you?”
I teach kids how to model and animate in Blender. I can deal with the transform widget because I can turn it on and off. We start with it on, so the kids get used to free and constrained movement in 3D space. Then we teach the g,s,r-x,y,z key sequence to do the same thing. Some kids take to it, some don’t (some can’t type.) But they get to make the decision, and have control over whether they leave the widget on and use it for editing, or turn it off and use the keyboard. They are in control.
But not so with mouse gestures. With kids, the “hyper caffeinated clicky-draggy thing” happens all the time, sometimes accidentally, sometimes on purpose. Either way, they are left with a model that is scaled, rotated and translated in some random uncontrolled fashion, and they can’t put it right to continue what they were doing.
Kids don’t automatically see things in the 3D viewport as 3D objects in virtual space. They have to learn to see that and they learn it by controlled manipulation of objects. When the manipulation is out of their control, it slows the learning process down. I really wish I could turn mouse gestures off in the beginning.
I could not live without mouse gestures - especially the “translate” gesture - it is the most instantaneous way of moving things!
At worst let gestures be an option - please don’t try to get them completely removed!
Koba
I voted “what are they” because reading this thread, not because I don’t know what they are, but because I just figured out they were even there.
Its a bit odd, that I’ve been using Blender for two years or so now and I’m just now figuring that out. However, I have to say, now that I’ve messed around with them a bit, I have to say I really prefer the hotkeys. They are, in my opinion, faster and easier. If I was a beginner or had a tablet I might have a different opinion, but since I have every single hotkey drilled into my brain, mouse gestures seem more like an annoyance.
-Lando
Did that happen when you clicked right in the middle of the circle? Usually there’s a pink dot there. It doesn’t happen if you are in one of the ortho views, it has to be in perspective view and try to put it so you are looking at 45 degrees between two arrows.
Yeah, that’s why I think that a double-click for cursor movement would be ok. I think it’s a good idea to keep object selection and object movement on separate buttons to prevent losing your selection while moving so I don’t have a big problem using left-click to drag stuff. Changing the cursor movement to double-click further prevents the mistake of moving the cursor while transforming around it.
Yup, I can’t do without an undo system these days. I don’t know why the undo system affects scripts at all because it’s not as if they actually undo anything there, they just close the scripts down.
That’s all that we’re hoping for. Most features are the same - you will get people who can’t live without it and others who hate it. Choice is the only solution. Even defaults don’t make a difference because you use ctrl-u to keep them set.
osxrules:
What is the obsession with clicking within the white circle of the Widget? There’s an entire interface AROUND that circle. That is where you interact with the control, not within the circle. Drag along the desired axis and it works every time. You are confusing Blender (and yourself) by not properly using the widget’s interface.
orinoco:
I applaud your efforts with teaching children how to use Blender! 
But, having a problem with mouse gestures because children experience difficulty is a bit over the top. Blender isn’t a children’s application. That’s like teaching a child to play baseball and complaining about the weight of regulation baseball bats.:rolleyes:
I use “Gestures” in Blender all the time and for me very usefull!!!
Ok , some great responses here.
and no nothing offends me, it is important to get feedback, good and bad (bad is equally as good as good.) so even if the polls are not liked, thats not the real information i want.
By the sounds of it, the only 2 suggestions i have for gestures are these.
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Make a gestures Toggle button next to the widgets toggle button, allowing users to turn them on/off if they wish, but would be actiavted by default, like widgets are.
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Show an icon in the top corner of the 3d view for the duration of any Gesture controled movemet. this is so new users, and experienced users alike can visually see the movement blender expects, and the mode they are in.
this should alos allow blenders gestures to be expanded upon, since the software could then show and teach more complex movements than the three currently available.
crit my ideas, you are always welcome, the benifit to blender is only better the more people that rubish or support my ideas.
Alltaken
- Make a gestures Toggle button next to the widgets toggle button, allowing users to turn them on/off if they wish, but would be activated by default, like widgets are.
I think an on/off button for the gestures would be better placed in the Preferences window because it’s not a setting that would be changed often. Either a user will want the gestures or they won’t. I think of this option as being on the same priority level as tooltips visibility.
- Show an icon in the top corner of the 3d view for the duration of any Gesture controlled movement. this is so new users, and experienced users alike can visually see the movement blender expects, and the mode they are in.
That will require an awful lot of coding for something that really only takes a little bit of understanding to grasp. THE problem that most users probably encounter with Blender’s interpretation of their gestures is the difference between the scaling and rotation gestures. The way to avoid this is to simply understand that Blender is looking for a degree of change in direction. The documentation’s suggested gesture for scaling is to use a “V” shape. IMO, that’s not a good way to approach it because it’s extremely easy to round out the corner when making the “V” shape, which causes Blender to misinterpret it to be the rotation gesture. Instead of using a “V” shape, simply make a line gesture (of any length and vector) in one direction, and then return along that same path (without trying to make a “V” shape). This minimizes the chance for rounding the corner of the gesture and you will rarely have any problems with the gestures. As with anything, they do take a little bit of practice and effort to integrate them into your workflow.
IMO, education (and patience) is the better solution.
I use them sometimes but they are not that important, and sometimes they annoy me. From an ergonomic perspective, they give me one more option for doing things, and options are always good when your hand starts hurting. If I use them accidentally they can get in the way, but that’s what right click is for. I wouldn’t want them removed, but toggling them off (having them on, as they are now, by default) would be a fine option to me.
I suspect many new users, especially those who are also new to 3D in general, experience this as a problem. bugman_2000 even accidentally engages mouse gestures from time to time, as do I, but we have enough experience to understand what is happening, and what to do about it. We get annoyed, beginners get frustrated.
I don’t have a problem with mouse gestures because children have difficulty using them, I have a problem because they are not under user control with a simple on/off toggle. It’s more like teaching children to play baseball and then chasing them off the field because they didn’t show up with all the regulation equipment and uniforms.
What sort of 3D application would you recommend for children? DAZ Studio? And at what age would you allow them to transition to Blender?
well i see two goals
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promoting the use of Gestures, which is a unique feature of blender.
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making the use of gestures more accessible and understandable to learners
so they can put them into their workflow earlier.
tihs way the system could perhaps be expanded upon.
I’m not trying to remove them, not trying to make it “slower” or more difficult for existing users. so really i don’t see how there could be any down-side.
Although Ton has said, that the priority for coding interface stuff is with the “Existing experienced users” this means any ergonomics designed to make it easier for new users will be low priority, so the whole area of Gestures is probably fairly low priority.
I do agree with him on that, so will probably start looking in different places for improvements. ideally for me though, after existing users are catered for, it would be great to have stuff designed to make it easier for new users (if it doesn’t negitively effect others)
Alltaken
making the use of gestures more accessible and understandable to learners
so they can put them into their workflow earlier.
Something like Mariano’s “NewGestures.py” which can be turned on and off in SpaceHandlers and which I keep loaded and cocked.
%<
cool for demos when through the gestures and no keyboard i can perform simple tasks like rotate or so!
claas
somebody explained it to me once… but i’m not sure anymore. maybe it was something how blenders undo system is basicly saving and loading. and loading reloads certain parts of ui… or resets… or… breaks those script links … something like that.
.b
As a result of this thread I’ve tried messing with gestures to see if I’ve just not given them a chance - but I’m not convinced (for me).
On some occasions, dragging a pronounced spiral shape to rotate generated a scaling response 
.
When trying to scale with the above-mentioned returned-line action, my mouse pointer had travelled from near centre screen to half-way toward screen edge before the default cube responded and began scaling. It was probably a one-second delay. On more than one occasion the mouse had almost left the screen before scaling commenced :eek: leaving little room to move to perform the action.
Translating just doesn’t feel right (to me). Letting go of the mouse button to perform the action seems counter-intutive.
But that’s just me. I wouldn’t suggest they be dumped just because I don’t use them (if that were the case we’d lose the game engine, fluids, particles, UV-unwrap and a host of other features I probably still haven’t discovered). I don’t think anyone wants them discarded. Turning them off seems like a reasonable suggestion although I’ve rarely been caught by them.
On the other hand, placing the cursor with one left-click catches me all the time and is far more problematic and time consuming.
can someone tell me if ctrl + leftclick drag to select region of stuff is a mouse gesture? i REALLY REALLY like that feature