I just remembered one of my major gripes. One that might get worse with tabs.
Right now each 3D view has different settings in each new layout.
If you customize one,it does not get customized in another,which could arguably have benefits.
BUT
I feel that if you take the time to order,to setup,to pin panels and such,last thing you want to do is to have to do that over and over again.
“Global toolshelves” setting is a must,imo. Let it remember pins and panel order and visibility.
Another way would be to be able to copy-paste a toolshelf but that seems harder to pull of.
Yet another way would be to make global toolshelf default and then have a “fake user button”-like functionality to make a single toolshelf different.
There are several ways and I hope you consider this. If it will be a pain to use ,people won’t use it to it’s fullest.
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic but I would love to know just from the point of learning something, if it is possible just through modifying the scripts that come with Blender to do entirely away with the tabs in the toolbar?
This is a much larger issue, and really has nothing to do with tabs (although I see your point about taking time to pin panels). There’s been a lot of discussion over local/global toolbars. There’s no consensus yet, but it’s likely an issue that we’ll try and address over the next few versions.
Yep! Just edit the space_view3d_toolbar.py via right clicking and “Edit Source” on any toolbar button. Then simply remove the “bl_category = ‘name’” line for each panel.
I think Bollebib talks about toolbars from the same window type being linked to each other. Currently, when you rearrange the panels in one 3d View window for example, toolbars in other 3d View windows stay the same, which is cumbersome to manage.
I agree that linked toolbars would be a better solution.
Different screens are used for different tasks. From that point of view it would make zero sense for the toolbar panels and pins to have any globality.
I have a screen for node editing materials, it has a small 3d view editor in it but I don’t do any modeling there, so it makes sense to have the toolbar panels that I use there just stay visible when I come back to it. Similarly with the UV editing and animation and rigging screens - all have a 3D view window and they all have the toolbar panels arranged to show the ones I need. That’s how my startup file is saved. Please don’t destroy this functionality to satisfy some request for purposeless ‘consistency’. Each screen needs to ‘remember’ its layout, INCLUDING the toolbar panel choices.
If not won’t the next thing be someone saying I don’t like to drag all these windows to different sizes, why not just have all the screens follow the default layout automatically. Wouldn’t that be less cumbersome?
You DON’T have to set up your toolbar the same way ‘over and over again’. How many screens do you have or need? If all of your screens have the same purpose and contents or you don’t know how to set up and save a startup file YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG, don’t try to make it impossible for others to do it right.
I’m with you. While Global settings for all toolbars sound nice in theory, it would break part of what makes Blender so customizable. I feel a better solution would to be able to save and load screen layouts more easily, along with any panel locations and such within that layout.
What we already have is that when one window is customized, other windows that are made by splitting the first inherit the customization. That doesn’t help with windows that are already open, but it’s a thing to keep in mind for minimizing customization work. Aside from that, I also find the possibility to set up each window seperately very valuable, so I won’t want that to be changed.
I can understand the frustration when changing window type and getting the old default, though, having to customize again. Maybe there’s a solution somewhere down the road for that as well, without taking away individual customizability.
In any case, thanks for your work on the UI, Jonathan!
I want this just BECAUSE Blender is so customizable. If there is no way to save/reuse/propagate customisations though it will get ignored. As a somewhat similar example: say you would have to reset keyboard shortcuts again and again,you wouldn’t bother. This is not the case however,and you can save and restore at leasure. Same goes for layouts they can be saved and stored. Render settings as well I think.
But not so for toolshelves.
To me I envision it like the ‘global scene’ option in UI preferences.
Just have the “global toolshelf” option and you are pretty much done.
To me that would be a huge timesaver.
Saving and loading toolshelves could be an additional method to quickly duplicate a few existing ones.
Yet another way would be to just via RMB, mark a shelf as global or as local.
Plenty of options that are viable.
Far be it for me to push a certain way about this issue,I just want it thought about,discussed and ultimately :finally get a decision that works for most,if not all people.
You DON’T have to set up your toolbar the same way ‘over and over again’. How many screens do you have or need? If all of your screens have the same purpose and contents or you don’t know how to set up and save a startup file YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG, don’t try to make it impossible for others to do it right.
yes you do,if you like the setup a certain way that differs from the default you very much do.
I have given up on using different layouts because it’s too much of a hassle to make the panels ordered to my mental preferences,where I would find them quicker.
Yes you can setup a startup blend with different layouts that have the same settings that you like. But any window can become any editor. So a properties editor can transform in a 3D view ,and that 3D view will more likely then not have default settings. Very inefficient.
I guess another way would be to let people overwrite the toolshelf default version,but that has it’s own issues again.
These tabs are never going to be completed if the devs listen to every user’s personal preference. There’s no UI that would please everybody. Don’t take my word for it. Just look at the other software applications you are using. I could add my own personal preferences in these discussions but I’d rather let these devs finish what they started.
As an example, I had my own customized UI when I was using AutoCAD; I have tools and commands float in a customized toolbar when I use Paint Shop Pro because mouse traveling between the default toolbar and object is labor intensive in some particular cases, especially on a wide screen; I have my own customized version of Modo; I also mostly use shortcut keys. And so on… Bottom line is, there’s no default UI that would satisfy everybody.
The main goal, I think, is for the devs to come up with the best default most users can agree with. And when it’s completed, they could then develop customization capabilities. Then pie menus, which would probably solve millions of things like minimize mouse travels, open a menu or tab in an instant, or go directly to your needed tool, etc.
Let them complete the default UI, which will be the one used in developing tutorials and training.
that’s not true, when you split a window you get the first area duplicated, but if you switch to other areas, that is why you usually want another window opened, you get a default disposing of the header and of the T and N panels, and you have to rearrange their sections order and visibility once again.
I think that the current inconvenience is more troublesome than having occasionally to customize a new window, usually you want to rely on a setting that fit the needs of your workflow.
I personally too often avoid to split a new window at the thought of having to fight with the defaults.
but you can get really close if the program is flexible and doesn’t force you one way or another. And Blender is one of the best students in that regard. I just want it to continue through that route.
Been looking at the python for the toolbar and it seems that once it’s all ironed out it should be quite possible to have a section in the preferences to allow complete customization of the toolbar, as in how many tabs, what each tab is called, how many subsections there are and what they are called, and what commands are found in each. All of it is doable by brute force editing the Python right now but doing it every time is a drag and putting it in preference form is a little ways off … It could be in a checkbox form, or it could be in the form that the input tab currently uses for the keybindings.
It seems that might be the closest we can get to having a toolbar that makes everyone happy. I know that what I want from the toolbar is a constantly moving target, how could I possibly tell anyone what I think the best arrangement is?
for me wasted time and space ,is the theme section in the user preferences at lesat at this amount.
i never saw a software where you can almoust every color.
I am using build third of this month and I was looking at the n and t panels particularly at the grease pencil panel. So a thought occurred to me, why not move all the grease pencil tools that are in the ‘n’ panel over to the ‘t’ panel and keep it all in one place. Is there a logical reason to keep them separated.
