Tell me I’m being an idiot. Copy pose only copies the keyframe positions not the bezier handle positions.
Is there some workaround?
If not that is pretty bad…:mad:
it also doesn’t take handles into account when calculating cyclic extend mode curves
That should probably be brought to the attention of the devs. I’d say file a bug report (check that it hasn’t already been filed).
Regarding the copy-pose issue:
Copy Pose simply does what it is meant to. A ‘Pose’ is really just the current state of the armature bone transforms, which is independent from the keyframes which get it into this state.
Therefore, if what you’d like to do is copy what you deem as a pose (i.e. a column of keyframes at some frame, including all their handles), I suggest that you simply use the Copy/Paste tools from the Action Editor header.
Alternatively, you could Duplicate the relevant keyframes (shift-d) and move them to the right places.
To get the same functionality as the ‘paste flipped pose’ option, select the keyframes on the relevant frames for the x-components, and mirror (shift-m) them over the ‘Vertical Axis’ (i.e. flipping the values of the x-components).
Regarding the handles and cyclic extrapolation:
Could you upload an annotated screenshot of what you’re currently getting, and what you were wanting instead. I think that’s the best way to find out what needs improvement here 
Aligorith
What’s the point paste flipped pose in the pose menu?. The way you have currently implemented it it is incompatible with bezier editing.
Do you honestly expect us to believe that you made a design decision to make using copied poses with edited keys a pain in the arse? :rolleyes:
Oh and what I “Deem” a pose is a pose. We’re the animator, and we spend our time making the poses and the in and out curves are just as important to the pose.
What you deem the pose is what a programmer would call a pose.
To paste a flipped pose.
Oh and what I “Deem” a pose is a pose. We’re the animator, and we spend our time making the poses and the in and out curves are just as important to the pose.
I’m an animator too, and I think the design makes perfect sense. Don’t act like you speak for all animators.
Also, you’re being an ass. Taking a “users vs developers” attitude (as you seem to be doing) is not just mean and ungrateful, but also counter-productive.
Aligorith is trying to be helpful. He even asked you for additional feedback for improving cyclic extrapolation.
What you deem the pose is what a programmer would call a pose.
I suspect most animators would agree with Aligorith’s definition too.
A pose is… well… it’s a pose. If you sketch a pose, it’s frozen. If you strike a pose, you’re not moving. If you’re posing a character, you’re positioning the character, not tweaking bezier handles.
What you seem to be talking about is copying keys.
But the copy-pose system works independently of keys, which IMO is a good thing. For example, you can copy poses even from frames that have no keys. All it’s copying is the position (or “pose”) of the bones.
I concur,
Blender is developed by artists, for artists… that’s what makes it so great!
When I was a Maya QA intern with Autodesk I saw first hand the breakdown that occurs when the developers don’t know how to use the program, and the users don’t know how to develop! Or more importantly, aren’t even allowed to!
To mirror a character from one pose to the other quickly, for doing things such as walk cycles where the keys and extremes are mirror images of eachother. Bassam demonstrates its use in the Mancandy DVD.
Don’t call me an ass.
A pose may be frozen if the character is not moving but usually, and particularly during walk cycles, (where flipping poses is most useful) a pose is a snapshot of something in motion. Give any animator a choice between those definitions and they’ll choose mine.
Moreover, the most useful application for pasting flipped poses as Foolgoodcomics said is for walk cycles. And as I pointed out, if you have edited any of the curves on the half you want to copy from then it won’t look the same on the other side.
Until any of you address this issue you’re missing the point. And to make a strawman argument about the definition of a pose is frankly pathetic,
Almost as pathetic as you’re suggested application for the tool “to paste a flipped pose.” What a joker. Tell me, how many times do you think you will want “to paste a flipped pose” without the destination pose being a pose in motion?
I won’t even bother with you’re other application copying a pose without keys. (as if creating the keys and copying them was difficult)
Aligorith wasn’t being helpful he was being dismissive. Ignoring my legitimate concerns and telling me (the animator) that I don’t know what a pose is. THAT is what causes the user v developer divide.
So Bottom line. I am right. This tool will mostly be used to copy and paste poses during walk cycles. And because it doesn’t copy the bezier data, the user will have to either forego the use of bezier handles or edit the handles for all the curves twice.
And what you guys want to argue about is the definition of a pose is and resort to ad homin attacks. Beneath contempt.
Then don’t act like one.
Algorith wasn’t being dismissive, he was trying to explain what the buttons do and why they do it. He is actually very keen to pick up improvements to the animation system when (new) users, experienced or not, make a good suggestion.
You can always copy and paste parts of the curve you want to copy from.
Doesn’t matter if you are right or not, you’re still acting like an ass. Have a nice day.
Ironic statement of the day.
Seems to me that both types of functionality would be useful. Poses as they are, tmcthree’s originally described feature, which I think would have obvious usefulness, and could be called copying keys as Cessen suggested. Although even in places where there were not keys, copying a pose along with the derivative of the curve at the point of the copied pose, if necessary creating a new key, might also be useful. tmcthree’s got a point that the curve at that point is something that animators may well want to access and copy.
Tell me I’m being an idiot.
You certainly weren’t being an idiot with your original post, IMO. But then Aligorith (who is really the man you want to talk to about this) made it clear that he’s interested in addressing your problem. Instead of working with him, you started getting all antagonistic, which, well, if you want your functionality implemented is a pretty idiotic way of going about it. IMO.
More ad hominem attacks while completely avoiding the point of debate.
Does anybody have anything to say about the use of the copy pose button?
[QUOTE=bugman_2000;1412366
You certainly weren’t being an idiot with your original post, IMO. But then Aligorith (who is really the man you want to talk to about this) made it clear that he’s interested in addressing your problem. Instead of working with him, you started getting all antagonistic, which, well, if you want your functionality implemented is a pretty idiotic way of going about it. IMO.[/QUOTE]
No he didn’t, read it again. He told me how he defined a pose and said that within that definition the copy pose button works therefore it didn’t need fixing. He wasn’t interested in that problem at all.
No he didn’t, read it again. He told me how he defined a pose and said that within that definition the copy pose button works therefore it didn’t need fixing. He wasn’t interested in that problem at all.
Well, now reading again more closely I see that he actually told you exactly how to do what you want to do in the Action editor. So what’s your beef?
He was being dismissive. He may have coded it but he button he clearly doesn’t know what the button should do.
Blenders way of doing stuff may seem funky first time you try, like when selecting materials/adding new/copying them… it is quite logical once you get used to it, but its so different.
I think Aligorith was quite polite, and you misunderstood him.
Go and try his method on a full rig and come back and tell me what you think.
And my beef is the copy and paste pose button is incorrectly implemented if you want to edit the curves of your poses.
In fact, I can’t work out what the button is for if it’s not to assist in doing walk cycles. Therefore if you want to do any fine tuning with the curves the copy pose button is almost redundant.
To everyone on this thread, particularly those you have called me an ass, I have some questions.
What do you think pose and paste mirror pose is for?
Can you think of any use for paste mirror apart from walkcycles and the like?
Do you fine tune your animations using the curves?
Although maybe that did come out a bit ass-like :o
Does anybody have anything to say about the use of the copy pose button?
Well, Cessen and Aligorith both did, and they made perfectly convincing points. You called them jokers and declared yourself right.
What more is there to say?