/me thinks this is just too much like the old community.
hehe
On 2002-03-23 11:54, kos wrote:
i wonder how the softwares like terragen and GIMP are still there!they are also free-just like blender.then why blender dies?
Because GIMP and Terragen never got turned into full-blown business ventures. If Ton had continued to develop Blender on a “hobby-basis” as he apparently did in the beginning, none of this would have happened.
Hey. dont make my cat mad. He can kick your ass!
No please, don’t make your fat cat kick me with his fat paws!! 
JamesK: Well, correct me if I’m wrong, but GIMP is GNU IMage Processor, so it’s opensource right?
Martin
Ok FIRST.
The more you keep neglecting blender to be open source, the more it will die. A post earlier said exactly that, why do gimp and other products which are also free dont die? and the answer is easy, because they ARE OPENSOURCE, THUS, THEY CANT DIE.
they may lose a developer, but at the same time gain others, and the project will never finish. Everyone is welcomed to grab the source and improve it, and thats why it has became so cool. Since blender as it is now is of no use as a product to be sold (basically, there’s no way of inventing a bussines strategy for it), it will eventually die. Blender is no maya, lightwave or 3DSmax, It will never get as much users and it’s not viable economically. I really think NaN is neglecting the chance to save themselves and blender by opensourcing it. If it became opensource, progress on it would increase very significantly and it would gain a bigger userbase since users will know that Blender will still be around. NaN still can sell it, or sell versions with propertary add-ons, or books about it, or whathever, which are much better bussines practices than what they’re doing now.
So, hope you get my point, blender is destined to be doomed unless it becomes opensource.
Also, people like macke, making stataments that the fault of blender’s failure is the refusal of people like me to buy it is amazingly stupid. If blender fails it’s NaN’s own fault for not having a solid bussines plan.
I never said NaN’s strategy was well. In fact, I made quite a ruckus on the old news server way long ago about it. How it would fail. I guess that those few lines I just wrote was my “I told you so” that people are so eager to express.
Nor did I tell you to buy publisher even if you don’t want it. I did however state that I think its rather lame to say that you don’t have any money because you’re a student. I percieved you as a lazy student not wanting to get a job, and as a consequence of that, not having the money to buy the product. Get my point? Even if you are a student you can still get a job.
I know poor students that study and work whom have bought stuff like cinema and a:m for their own hard earned money. All the while studying. Got my point now?
I’m of one mind with reduz.
Blender is not Maya or Max.
It’s a great freeware, but very
poor payware. The price is
low, ok…but a real professionist
work with Max, Maya, Softimage,
Deep paint etc…
they use Mental ray, Renderman, Brazil,
and not beta or alpha export script…
Ehm…they use Head designer, Facegen,
and not my little script…
Blender must be Opensource.
Cheers,
Manuel
Ok macke, i understand your point, but i still think there can be just too many reasons for people to not buy it, i was only giving you an example. Your judgement about me is wrong, I think you should know that i live in a devaluated country, where not only getting $300 is much harder than where you live, but ALSO since blender is an import, i have to pay three times more for it, which means it’s to me like paying $900. Also i cant use credit card internationally so there isnt really any way i can pay for it. So, your judgement is play wrong.
I’d like to really hear from someone that work(s)(ed) at NaN, why cant blender become opensource.
I hope they read this list.
I think all of the people that want Blender opensourced are missing one little thing. Who really owns Blender at this time? Who controls the what, when, and how of Blender today?
I like the opensource software movement, I like Linux as an operating system and the Gimp for graphics work, I’ve used and still do use a lot of opensource software(there is lots of it for Mac’s), I think it’s great.
Blender may…or may not have been developed as fast and with the dedication that it was/is developed with, as an opensource project, that is impossible to say. More likely there would be several competing versions all based on the same code all claiming to be “THE ONE”.
If you have so much time and so much skill as a programer, why don’t you start programing and start the opensource project your self? Make the 3D app. to end all 3D app.'s, opensource of course.
To clear some confusion about terragen…
it is NOT freeware. it is 79$ for the full version. It is NOT open source.
Just something I’m curious the older blenderheads haven’t been shouting to the rafters…
With all this talk about Blender becoming opensourse - one post even went so far as to say that’s what good about GIMP - they may lose a devloper - but another will step right up…
Well… Let’s not forget that Blender was Ton Roosendahl’s baby. He breathed life into it, he nurtured it and raised it for years (yay! Blender started life as an Amiga raytracer!!! Then became a great in-house tool for a working animation company) til the day he set it out into the world… And even then, he was still involved… as any parent would be.
The post I reference… does this mean people give a flying fudge for the man who started it all… would they be glad to see one of the man’s dreams an accomplishments taken from and butchered…
Maybe all I’m asking is to GIVE IT SOME F’ING TIME!!! Rome wasn’t built in a day, and you’re not gonna piss the guy’s dream away in a day either…
Or maybe I’m just being a dick.
Jason
On 2002-03-23 18:09, VelikM wrote:
I think all of the people that want Blender opensourced are missing one little thing. Who really owns Blender at this time? Who controls the what, when, and how of Blender today?
I like the opensource software movement, I like Linux as an operating system and the Gimp for graphics work, I’ve used and still do use a lot of opensource software(there is lots of it for Mac’s), I think it’s great.
Blender may…or may not have been developed as fast and with the dedication that it was/is developed with, as an opensource project, that is impossible to say. More likely there would be several competing versions all based on the same code all claiming to be “THE ONE”.
If you have so much time and so much skill as a programer, why don’t you start programing and start the opensource project your self? Make the 3D app. to end all 3D app.'s, opensource of course.
You can STILL OWN BLENDER while it is opensource. it’s the license what matters.
About competing version, that’s an old argument dude, it’s been proven that not only project forks are rare and happen in situations of extreme no-agreement between developers. And also why should forks be bad? most of the ones i can think of are actually GOOD, think of GCC, the egcs fork was great, the linux -ac trees, while not being a fork, helped a lot of people. mozilla and netscape being a fork were very good to all of us. So if there’s compentition, and people liking to try out their ideas
on a soft on their own, whats the problem?
Also, I’m not claiming that blender would be developed slower or faster as open source, i’m
claiming that in NaNs situation, opensourcing would sure help since they can get more developers without having to spend their money in increasing the inhouse resources. They can still coordinate development, like it happens with mozilla and almost any other owned-by-a-company opensource app.
Your last comment about me writing and app is pulled out of nowhere with no reason to be,
and written with the only will of disqualyfing a certain point. So I’m just ignoring such falaceous thing as the crap it is.
On 2002-03-23 18:13, SKPjason wrote:
Just something I’m curious the older blenderheads haven’t been shouting to the rafters…With all this talk about Blender becoming opensourse - one post even went so far as to say that’s what good about GIMP - they may lose a devloper - but another will step right up…
Well… Let’s not forget that Blender was Ton Roosendahl’s baby. He breathed life into it, he nurtured it and raised it for years (yay! Blender started life as an Amiga raytracer!!! Then became a great in-house tool for a working animation company) til the day he set it out into the world… And even then, he was still involved… as any parent would be.
The post I reference… does this mean people give a flying fudge for the man who started it all… would they be glad to see one of the man’s dreams an accomplishments taken from and butchered…
Maybe all I’m asking is to GIVE IT SOME F’ING TIME!!! Rome wasn’t built in a day, and you’re not gonna piss the guy’s dream away in a day either…
Or maybe I’m just being a dick.
Jason
It’s nice to know who this guy is. i had no idea.
But why should that matter? opensource means freedom of code, why is that bad? why should make this guy’s dream pissed? Many people seem to think that suggesting opensource is like saying “you guys at nan suck, give us your code and forget about it”
Which is actually all the opposite, oppensourcing means “you guys at nan, please share your code with us, we want to help you, help blender, and help the blender community”.
On 2002-03-23 18:37, reduz wrote:
It’s nice to know who this guy is. i had no idea.
But why should that matter? opensource means freedom of code, why is that bad? why should make this guy’s dream pissed? Many people seem to think that suggesting opensource is like saying “you guys at nan suck, give us your code and forget about it”Which is actually all the opposite, oppensourcing means “you guys at nan, please share your code with us, we want to help you, help blender, and help the blender community”.
You missed my ALL CAPS REMARK about give it time… I’m not against opensource… I’m against throwing the baby out with the bathwater…
NaN’s bankruptcy has JUST happened… I realize, being older, that the younger generation is used to MTV-style action… something happens every 1.3 seconds… but I think that considering the fact Ton Roosendahl has sweat and lived the Blender dream for SO LONG… we could give him a little time to figure out what to do… I don’t think that’s too much to ask…
Jason 
You missed my ALL CAPS REMARK about give it time… I’m not against opensource… I’m against throwing the baby out with the bathwater…
NaN’s bankruptcy has JUST happened… I realize, being older, that the younger generation is used to MTV-style action… something happens every 1.3 seconds… but I think that considering the fact Ton Roosendahl has sweat and lived the Blender dream for SO LONG… we could give him a little time to figure out what to do… I don’t think that’s too much to ask…
Jason
It maybe too late!
It maybe too late!
Wait a sec, I’ll try to guess the rest:
and then the twelve knights of apokalypse swept the city, leaving only corpses and carrion swarms...The night of the living dead has begun, a realm of terror where evil closed source software was dying of a good death, but the holy opensource faction decided to saved the evil closedsource programs for there happy death, saying:
“Thou shall not love too much the work of thy hands, for thou will never earn any interest for such work as thou hast done”
wheeee
Martin
“It doesnt take to be a genius to understand a huge piece of source code, only probably an hour or two of messing with it, so you can go straight to what you want.”
If you’re as good as to be able to make the above claim, then the following shouldn’t be that big of a jump for you,…now should it?
If you have so much time and so much skill as a programer, why don’t you start programing and start the opensource project your self? Make the 3D app. to end all 3D app.'s, opensource of course.
Surely releasing the source code isn’t NANs only option, I am not convinced of that.
I’ve only been on this Forum 1 week and even I know who Ton is –but hell 1 week is longer than almost half the people registered!.
On 2002-03-23 20:01, SKPjason wrote:
You missed my ALL CAPS REMARK about give it time… (snip)
NaN’s bankruptcy has JUST happened… (snip) we could give him a little time to figure out what to do… I don’t think that’s too much to ask…
Jason
Though I love Blender and have used it since 1999 your argument about time does not stand:
NaN is bancrupt for the second (!) time. They are “trying to find their way” for almost 2 years now and have spent loads of cash in the process. What you say only sounds stupid, considering just how much time and resources were already spent.
They’ve had more than enough time and goofed up.
Consider that the average small business doesn’t start to break even until 3 years and make a profit until 4-5 years, the definition of a successful small business (by US Small Business Admin.) is one that goes out of business in 4 years with out any debt (very rare), most successful small business’s start with 2 years operating capital (most unsuccessful small business’s start under capitilized, less than 2 years operating capital).