http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pentagon.html#Main
tell me what you think about it true or false? answer the poll
haha funny i watched that yesterday :P. ebaum rulez!!!
Oh for god’s sake.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/pentagoncrash.htm
I know people who were there… saw the 757. End of story.
There was an experiment done a few years ago where they were testing the resiliance of black boxes under extreme pressure. The ultimate test they used was by putting it inside a fighter jet which they attached to railway tracks so it would stay grounded and then they flew it into a brick wall. It was like watching a magic show because the plane just disappeared into vapour as it hit the wall.
Because the wall wasn’t big enough, the wing tips were left but the rest of the jet was nowhere to be seen.
In case you didn’t visit weirdhat’s links, here’s a better view of the debris:
http://www.news.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/010911-N-6157F-001.jpg
Think about it, theres not that much to an aircraft, weight to power ratio, if it was a massively reinforced it would never take off.
At that speed and carrying that much aviation fuel, it would have been almost completely destroyed, look at the photos of other aircraft crashes, theres very little left, plus they havnt flown into a solid object but slid across the ground.
conspiracy theories are illogical, VulcanKid…
I have also seen this theory of the missile. It differs from other ‘consiracy theories’ though, in the sense that there is actually ALOT of eveidence to support it.
1.) the fireball was not consistent with that of a 757, but more like a tomahawk missile.
2.) there were debris in the wreckage that appeared to be that of a missile.
3.) eyewitness reports from experienced military veterans said both that they heard a missile, and that they smelled the type of explosive used in missiles after the explosion.
4.) the object, in keeping with the characteristics of a missile strike, but not with an airpane, left what is known as a ‘punchout’, when it exited the building.
5.) in one of the pictures from the pentagon security camera, the plane can be seen in the background, about 25 ft above the ground, and has not yet contacted the building,…however the explosion can be clearly seen,…ahead of the plane.
6.) all other footage of the strike, including footage taken from the top of the sheraton hotel, which would have put this matter to rest,…was confiscated.
7.) The eyewitness report of the firefighter,…considered to be one of the best, was found to be bogus, and his version of events, quite impossible.
8.) the entry hole in the pentagon, is smaller than the fuselage of a 757.
9.) They were no visible 757 debris that could be identified. Look at other plane crash sites, and you will see wings,…tail sections,…etc.
10.) the entire lawn of the pentagon was almost immediately covered up with sand and gravel,…ruining the possibility of further analysis of potential evidence.
11.) The list of inconsistencies goes on,…and on,…and on.
There are many web pages dedicated to this mystery,…and while I am not prone to buying into ‘conspiracy theories’,…I have a hard time dismissing this one. %|
The info is out there,…and you should look at it with an open mind before calling bunk.
6.) all other footage of the strike, including footage taken from the top of the sheraton hotel, which would have put this matter to rest,…was confiscated.
This one’s true, and is why I still don’t discount the missle theory. Our government did this with the Oklahoma City bombing too. All video evidence of each event was confiscated and hidden from the public. If both incidents didn’t invole our own people, there’s no rational reason these videos shouldn’t be made available.
That’s some convincing evidence. It’s always hard to deny something that is so strongly ingrained in the mind. So what is the prevailing explanation if it is a missile? That we fired a missile at the pentagon on accident? On purpose? It’s someone else’s missile? I’m not being sarcastic here, just in case it sounds like that. I’m really curious about why there would be a missile.
All of the evidence is actually available at the memorial museum, if you want to go see it… I have.
It is true they initially confiscated everything though, even a tape of a meeting that my stepmother’s brother was in was confiscated. They used it as evidence… get a grip, this happens with every federal crime.
All of the evidence is actually available at the memorial museum, if you want to go see it… I have.
You mean the actual security camera tapes of the explosion and before. like of McVeigh getting out of his truck etc? I heard that all relevant videos from security camera’s and such were confiscated by the FBI and never seen again. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I doubt seriosly that they playing at the memorial.
Wow, Modron’s post just made me question the situation. 
Sounds suspicious to me. The thing is though, Like NQE1 said, what difference would it make if it was a missile or a plane? It still blasted a hole in the Pentagon, which I suspect was the intention.
Also, people keep pointing out that some identifying features of a plane were missing but when things move as quickly as an airliner into reinforced concrete, they vapourize (i.e. like smoke - you’ll never see the bits again).
The thing is, you can’t expect that the plane would be travelling like a normal plane you see landing at an airport, it would be moving at full pelt if not faster due to it falling from the sky. The people driving it weren’t trying to parallel park, they wanted to do some damage.
In that case, who’s to say a plane doesn’t sound like a missile at that speed? The people inside the building were behind reinforced structures and the people outside were well, American - most will say anything to get on TV or cause some conspiracy.
The removal of footage is no conspiracy. There would be no better propaganda for the enemy than showing footage of possibly one of America’s own planes (was it?) smashing into their own security headquarters.
There are conspiracy theories on most major events - JFK assassination, Elvis’ death, Marylin Monroe’s death, Princess Di’s death. I just don’t see how conspiracy theories could be true. Like I said, there is usually little motive and with the internet and people defecting from secret organisations, someone would have spilled the beans by now.
Anyway, this site’s quite interesting:
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videos/fiveframes.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/videoframes.html
The reason the missle would have been aimed at that part of the pentagon was because 1)There were no people in that part at the time.
2)It held records of people who were in the military and such and 3) Bush didnt want his records out in the open so he arranged for them to be destroyed and timing it perfectly so that he could tie it in with the Trade Center attacks.
wheeeee!!! (/me is jumping in the air and waving his hands with joy because there is another conspiracy theory)
I wan’t to ask somthing… why? why?? why??? why the fuck would the us won’t to shoot a missile on the pentagon??? - it could kill the aliens they are hidding in the seller!!!
What about the people that were killed aboard Flight 77 and the filmed deathbed-confession of a leading tactic from some terrorist organization saying he helped plan the 9/11 attacks and himself came up with the ide to strike the pentagon?
I guess it’s just human nature to question the reasonable and claim everything questionable reasonable…
People seem to be asking for answers,…as if i could provide them. I was not given a magic answer sheet with these questions. I was not told ‘why’ these questions have been posed, or why there is a punchout hole in the pentagon where there should be none. Shame on you for your mockery and ridicule. If you had looked at the available facts you would see that this is not your common conspiracy theory, but some legitimate questions. Because it is not fathomable to you WHY someone would do such a thing you dismiss it as ‘another conspiracy theory’, and ridicule, and chuckle. I will be sure to remember that. :<
<edit> and while you’re at it, you might take a moment to ponder why the events of 9/11 led to the invasion of Iraq. Our best intellegence, if you will bother to read the 9/11 report told us that there was nothing of interest in Iraq, and that there was no threat. Despite this, Bush sent out Rumsfeld and others with the message “FIND evidence. We are invading.”
Because they wanted some oil
Well, that is total BS.
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The area was just completing renovation, but was still occupied by many people.
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“Military records” are not stored at the Pentagon. St. Louis is the main repository. There are files and information, but you woudn’t have some 35 year old Air National Guard files there.
I’ll respon to Modron’s post since he has the most logical grouping of points. In my experience, where I have had first hand information or access to those with first hand knowledge, conspiracy theories are caused by a lack of knowledge and intelligence (both the common sense and military type) with a belief that an unknown group is all powerful and capable. It becomes a contradicition when the poplulation is gullible and blind, but the contolling group is all-prescient (even though it is made up of the those from the general population).
I first heard about this theory from some French postings of “the truth” about the Pentagon. Remember the “TWA 800 missile theory” that “French Intelligence” gave to Pierre Salinger even though it had been on the internet for 6 months or so. If you want to discuss TWA 800, we can do that on a separate thread. I was with the Navy P-3 squadron when it happened.
1.) the fireball was not consistent with that of a 757, but more like a tomahawk missile.
Not true. A Tomahawk missile does not have a large fireball. It causes an explosion and does damage that way. The unused fuel in the missile can burn, but that will be a minor effect that wouldn’t appear on video unitl after the initial contact and explosion, even later if the Tomahawk was set for a delayed fuse.
2.) there were debris in the wreckage that appeared to be that of a missile.
Missiles and airplanes are made out of similar material. Lots of aluminum and wiring. The difference is a few tons of matter. There is very little left from a missile unless it is a cruise missile that is shot down or crashes before hitting the target and exploding.
3.) eyewitness reports from experienced military veterans said both that they heard a missile, and that they smelled the type of explosive used in missiles after the explosion.
I never heard a comment that the witnesses heard a ‘rocket’ motor. A cruise missile engine is similar to a turbojet and will have a similar sound although it will be much quieter. The fact that they heard the sound would be circumstantial that something much bigger than a cruise missile was responsible.
Cruise missiles don’t use cordite which is what 1 witness claimed he smelled. The concrete and burning fuel smell would be most prevalent. They don’t have anything to do with distinguishing between a missile and an airplane.
4.) the object, in keeping with the characteristics of a missile strike, but not with an airpane, left what is known as a ‘punchout’, when it exited the building.
The impact had the signs of the penetration of a large object. A missile will be designed to explode on impact or to have a hardened nose that will penetrate through some layers, then explode with a delay (to do more damage inside). A Tomahawk has relatively little penetrating capability due to the low velocity and low mass. Penetrating multiple layers of concrete walls with multiple air gaps is not possible with a cruise missile.
An armor piercing explosive achieves its result by kinetic energy. The kinetic energy is focused no the object and overwhelms the ability to dissipate the energy. Kinetic energy rounds do not have an explosive but are strictly mass and velocity powered. A signature is a small hole with a large flash. The flash can ignite other materials or secondary effects. The countermeasure is to try to dissipate the energy. This is done by range (lower velocity) or by the target material. An M-1 tank uses armor that is designed to absorb energy better than regular steel. This is how main gun tank rounds work.
High explosive, armor piercing rounds also use kinetic energy, but the energy is created by an explosive. There is basically a cone of copper with the point facing away from the target. When the warhead makes contact, an explosive charge surrounding the cone is ignited. This turns the copper molten and forces it into a very high velocity jet towards the target. Again, mass and velocity powered. The most reliable countermeasure is to dissipate the molten stream by spacing materials. This is how the armor on a Bradley Fighting Vehicle works. The Pentagon is a perfect example of layered materials with air gaps in between.
The hole in the pentagon is relatively large (much bigger in diameter than a missile). The pattern of debris/destruction of the rings has the signature of a kinetic energy penetrator. The blast damage looks like the force was directed into the building. If there was a large warhead that exploded, there would be a lot of debris thrown outward.
Everything about the damage, blast pattern, and debris field is consistent with a large, heavy object hitting the building.
5.) in one of the pictures from the pentagon security camera, the plane can be seen in the background, about 25 ft above the ground, and has not yet contacted the building,…however the explosion can be clearly seen,…ahead of the plane.
I thought we were making a claim that a “missile” hit the building. Now you are saying there was an explosion inside the Pentagon before the impact. This moves into that “all-prescient ‘them’”. The timing for that to happen would have to be extemely precise. You don’t do that without a lot of people knowing what is going on and precise tracking of the incoming object.
I went back and looked at those 5 frames on the click. I can’t see an explosion happening before the impact.
6.) all other footage of the strike, including footage taken from the top of the sheraton hotel, which would have put this matter to rest,…was confiscated.
As others have said, this is common practice in an investigation. The World Trade Center had a documentary camera crew that filmed a lot of it. There were also tourists in the area. The Pentagon and much of the surrounding area is military spaces. Video cameras are not allowed. According to the comments from the people at the Sheraton that viewed the security tape, they didn’t say anything that disagreed with a 757 hitting the Pentagon.
7.) The eyewitness report of the firefighter,…considered to be one of the best, was found to be bogus, and his version of events, quite impossible.
Ok, I’ll go along with that.
8.) the entry hole in the pentagon, is smaller than the fuselage of a 757.
Not much smaller. Certainly not missile sized (less than .5m or 18"). The aluminum airframe would continually collapse into a smaller diameter object as it impacted the hard concrete and penetrated it.
9.) They were no visible 757 debris that could be identified. Look at other plane crash sites, and you will see wings,…tail sections,…etc.
Actually there were. The French website I mentioned at the beginning just omitted those photos that showed the recognizable pieces. Those pieces were also carted off as quickly as possible to reduce hazards and work with the investigation.
10.) the entire lawn of the pentagon was almost immediately covered up with sand and gravel,…ruining the possibility of further analysis of potential evidence.
That is standard when there is fuel and other environmentally hazardous materials. Lots of sharp pieces, concrete dust, and potentially asbestos (asbestos was one of the reasons for the refurbishing).
11.) The list of inconsistencies goes on,…and on,…and on.
Yes, there are a lot of inconsistencies, but they are found when trying to explain a missile strike or other conspiracy.
There are many web pages dedicated to this mystery,…and while I am not prone to buying into ‘conspiracy theories’,…I have a hard time dismissing this one. %|
I don’t feel that I had a hard time dismissing this one.
The info is out there,…and you should look at it with an open mind before calling bunk.
There is a difference between having an open mind and giving equal weight to garbage conspiracy theories.