PhotoLine 25 released!

Even better: these can be stacked so we can work with layered liquify adjustments. And the layer opacity allows us to control each liquify layer separately, even going as far as doubling the effect (+200% layer opacity) or reducing(!) the effect with a negative(!) layer opacity.

It is also possible to reduce the resolution of a liquify layer to work faster on very large high resolution images. Or move these layers or rotate them, or whatever.

Install the improved icon set from user Shijan. Looks much better.

There is at least one user on the PhotoLine forum who runs PhotoLine on Wine. He always reports any issues if they come up to the developers. The devs support Wine actively.

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Does that mean it results in the inverse transform for negative layer opacity?

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Correct: with a Liquify adjustment layer set a -100 will reverse the effect. +200 will strengthen the displacement by 100%.

And these liquify layers can also be cloned, btw. And re-positioned, scaled, rotated, skewed, transformed in perspective,…

It’s pretty cool and allows for effects that are not possible in other apps. Or not as easily.

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More and more impressed by the minute. Many cool concepts, performant and everything is much more integrated and granular. Nice.

…not much of a photographer but I just had 5 different raw adjustment layers on some img.cr2 I took with a canon dlsr-something 3900x2600 px, some of them with masks with liquify layers. Nice 2

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My experience tells me that it takes a day or two for experienced Photoshop users to get used to PhotoLine’s workflow. It is so much more flexible in regard to layer-based compositing.

Not everyone can deal with the initial cognitive dissonance, and granted: the default GUI setup isn’t the best. It needs a bit of tinkering to adjust it to one’s individual workflow preferences. It’s worth it, though. The lack of online tutorials and YouTube vids isn’t helpful either :sweat_smile:

PhotoLine may not possess the initial shallow attraction factor like Photoshop or Affinity, but stick with it for a few days, and it may delightfully surprise you.

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Random things I found out.

Useful adjustment layer: Hue editor (The curve icon reflects the custom curve :slight_smile: )
Lots of useful adjustment layers actually.

ctrl/alt + space + click zooms in/out with every click
space + ctrl/alt + click reverts to the alt/ctrl binding after 1 click

The mask/lasso/selection issue becomes clear, once you have the channel panel at hand.

masking/clipping is on another level here.

not a lot of presets. At least a handful for every item would be nice in order to get a better understanding.

performance still stumps me. In a few cases it is a little slower than PS, faster in some others and miles ahead of everything else I’ve tried so far…

Some options are spread all over the place while not being integrated in the context menu. Maybe that is adjustable?

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Did you notice that many adjustment layers work with RGB/LAB/HSV/HIS without having to switch image mode? Also very useful.

Some adjustments found in the Tool/Filter/Effects menu seemingly cannot be applied non-destructively. But similar to Photoshop’s Smart Objects, after converting a layer (group) to a Placeholder layer most of those can then be applied non-destructively as well.

This also works with many classic Photoshop plugins, btw.

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As an Adobe fan here since Ps 7 and Illy 10 days… the more I read about your PL progress the more I like it!

Are the selection tools just as effective as those in Ps?

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Adobe definitely got selection right. Smooth and precise; masking layers are a bit limited but I especially like photoshop’s selection brush for quickly separating elements.
PL has a similar feature, better in its design but also a lot slower. I think I can recreate most of my needs for masking and selecting in photoline. But I also have to completely rethink/reverse some workflows I’ve gotten used to in the past.

You can have 1 clipping and multiple masking layers for each pixel/vector layer (+nested grouping). Each masking layer can have its own adjustment layer. Each layer can have a different bitdepth capped by the BG layer’s properties. So there is a lot of flexibility.
Had some unpleasant display glitches too though. Hope those were just bugs from the version update.

It is super polished in some places (I sensed a passion for detail in every corner) - and a little rough and quirky in others.

I am comparing it to PS CS6 btw. no CC for me…

I think I really need a proper project to check out whether it’s the thing for me. Right now I am just testing out fringe cases in order to break it.
It feels like: Shareware on that PCmagazine DVD - but it’s actually good!1!!??
Starts up in a second. Lot’s of clever concepts. Permanent affordable non-machine-bound license with dedicated devs. Herbert123 is right: at least Photoline should be mentioned in the public discourse more often… or at least at all :smiley:

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I had one initial grievance: As a first stress test I imported a super heavy PSD file and it was completely mangled. But it also was one of those deadline final files with weird groups and nested groups with correction layers and linked clipping layers and several other somethings - everything all over the place all at once. But every reasonably structured PSD imports just fine.

That one clipping layer can also be a group consisting of other masks, adjustment layers, content layers, cloned layers, and so forth :slight_smile:

It is important to note that groups have a “Draw Isolated” option which changes the behaviour of clipping layers (similar to the advanced blending option in Photoshop to control the clipping mask behaviour - if I recall correctly).

When the “Draw Isolated” option is turned off, the blend mode of that group is ignored. When active, the group’s blend mode affects the overall comp result.

With clipping masks, for example, two vector layers add up to behave like one overall black and white mask when this property is inactive. When active, the transparency of the child layers in the clipping mask will play a role.

“Draw Isolated” is much slower to process, though.

And what is also nice about clipping masks or layer masks: the layer properties include two addition options to affect the mask: a simple invert option, as well as a feathering control.

In any case when dealing with slow-downs in more complex comping: convert the offending comp parts to Placeholder layers. There is a reason why the developers of Photoshop opted for the Smart Object solution: just like pre-comps in After Effects Smart Objects defer and limit processing to the contents inside a Smart Object, and a static version is created in the main layer stack that does not need to be processed and updated in real time.

Same with Placeholder layers: at some point complex layer stacks will begin to slow down the layer stack processing. It is at that point that we should consider converting parts of the layer stack to Placeholder layers - just like Photoshop’s Smart Objects.

And this also explains the advantages of linking external PhotoLine files in a Placeholder layer: similar to Smart Objects that link to external PSD files, it allows us to create comps within comps within comps and also work on part s outside the main comp.

Comp(ris) ? :sweat_smile:

…and another powerful comping trick is to link an external PNG file (for example) in a Placeholder, and then edit the placeholder content. Ensure “Save a PLD file Additionally” is checked in the Save options preferences.

Add a few layers of content, and close and save the placeholder contents. The original PNG is replaced with the new PNG version. PhotoLine senses a change in the external file layer, and updates it accordingly in the main file.

Here is the thing though: edit the placeholder layer once more. Surprise: all layers still exist! Even though a flattened PNG was saved and used to update the main!

How?! Well, with that earlier preference option PhotoLine saves a native file PLD sidecar alongside with the flattened PNG version. So the main actually uses the flattened PNG --which is incredibly light on resources-- while when we edit the contents PhotoLine automatically detects that sidecar file, and opens the native source file with all the snazzy layer comping intact.

Magic! And this also works when we simply open the PNG in PhotoLine: it will open the native source layer, and when saved, both the flattened and source sidecar files are updated.

Terrific workflow for advanced complex comping work that would bring our machines to their knees otherwise. And also for development (games) work: we work directly with the final output assets as if those are layered native source files in PhotoLine.

(p.s.: I always add PLD files to my .gitignore in Git for file versioning to ignore those. And I use a secondary local file versioning tool to create versions of those PLD binaries. Keeps my repo clean, and keeps the binaries limited and manageable.)

@ogonek You will appreciate the extended “Smart Object” functionality in PhotoLine compared to Photoshop CS6: it was only in the release following CS6 → CC (2013) that external files could be linked to Smart Objects. And in one of the releases after this the PS team introduced the option to maintain colour management and image mode for their content in Smart Objects.

All that (and more) has opened up for you with Placeholder layers in PhotoLine.

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Ok, I already dug a little into the “isolated layer” stuff (gave me a memory error once but that might have been on me :stuck_out_tongue: )
I love the whole placeholder and cloned layer stuff. The rest of your post I’ll have to disect tomorrow. Couldn’t follow just reading it.

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Yeah, sorry - I should find the time to record a PhotoLine course and put that on YouTube. Been meaning to, but so little time and so much work and other live stuff.

Hey, I possibly could cash in big time! I might become the ‘PhotoLine Tuber’. …if only there were more users… :laughing:

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What are your machine’s specs? PhotoLine prefers physical RAM rather than virtual RAM. Photoshop does have an advantage there with its virtual memory options.

Hi, I read all the info here a tried PhotoLine on Linux, to my regret, I had to realize it cant open Gimp .xcf files.
Did I not find it or is it not possible?

Cheers, mib

Linux ?? via Wine i guess…

…and XCF:
New since 24…(and already …in some beta 23? )

https://www.pl32.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?p=51841&hilit=xcf#p51841

Ah thanks and yes, with Wine.
Maybe it was just the test file I tried to import.
Got “Cant Import” or something error.
If I find some time I will find a smaller file and contact the support.

I tried a bunch of XCF files, and those all loaded just fine.

Thanks, I selected the only file not working in PhotoLine, all other work. :slight_smile:

Cheers, mib

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Would you be able to share that file? I can send it to the developers and ask them to fix whatever is preventing it to load in PhotoLine.