PhotoLine 25 released!

PhotoLine’s new release focuses a lot on improving existing features, as well as a huge number of bug fixes.

New features worth mentioning:

  • Support for Cryptomattes from openEXR files. Mattes can be converted to (layer) masks.
  • All painting tools have the option to show a preview BEFORE drawing.
  • Performance optimizations and numerous small improvements across the board
  • Many GUI improvements: grouping/sets for colour swatches, brushes, textures, patterns, etc. Layer search improvements. Improved page panel controls. Curve editor’s text input supports formulas to generate curve profiles. Option to keep curves when switching modes.
  • Windows: Powershell scripting integration improved
  • Base64 images can be pasted directly from clipboard
  • Saving Page command now supports all file formats
  • bitmap gradients with transparency remain non-destructive and editable. Also remains “live” editable with any blend mode used to draw gradients. (Obviously vector gradients were always non-destructive)
  • layer style gradient supports following the curve of the object now.
  • curve tool now shows a preview of the path before committing.

And many MANY small improvements, quality of life additions, and of course bugs squashed.

Speaking for myself, I really enjoy the realtime preview before drawing/painting - extraordinarily useful while painting masks, for example. Or adjusting edges, etc, or when erasing stuff. No more trial and error and “going by feel” when erasing with a soft brush.

The cryptomatte support is also great.

All changes for this release here:

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Ha… almost nostalgic vibes… i used this ( an one digit version ) when i also used windows… once upon a time… or in a galaxy far far away… :smile_cat:

Nice. When I’m back on Mac, somewhere this year, I will buy PhotoLine.

PhotoLine is almost as old as Photoshop :sweat_smile:

Yet most people never heard of PhotoLine…

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Could you give me the quick version summary of what the advantages/disadvantages to switching over to photoline from photoshop?

Or say compared to any other alternative?

I have used gimpshop before. But always come back to PS.

I use photoshop for everything from image editing, 2D concepts and even 2D animation.

Some of the new AI features are also quite useful.

This is going to be a somewhat lengthy list. Sorry, but there is so much that I prefer over Photoshop in regard to workflow in PhotoLine.

In short:

Pros:

  • PhotoLine is less destructive in nature than Photoshop
  • PhotoLine’s layer stack for image compositing purposes is light-years ahead of Photoshop
  • interoperability of PhotoLine with other design apps is unique
  • PhotoLine truly combines bitmap and vector editing in one seamless app
  • PhotoLines asset export options and support for file formats exceeds Photoshop
  • No subscription, one-time fee. Portable installation support, and Linux WINE is actively supported by the devs.

Cons:

  • proper timeline for animation. Animation is possible, but lacking in expected features.
  • no genAI (but is fixable via Krita and app-linking)
  • drawing tools are good, but not as good as Photoshop.

Long list follows. :dizzy_face:

Let’s get the bad --or missing stuff-- out of the way first:

  • Animation support is rather limited. There are two ways to animate in PhotoLine: classic “Fireworks” root layer flipping, and an isolated animation timeline. Neither is great, and a proper timeline for animation that plays in the viewport isn’t available. The layer-based animation option is good enough for simple frame-by-frame animations or GIFs, but that’s it.

Then again: Photoshop’s timeline is torture to work with in my opinion. I use Krita, ClipStudio, Moho Pro, and OpenToonz for these things. But it would be great if PhotoLine would had a timeline like Krita.

  • No genAI features. PhotoLine does have the standard smart removal options (similar to Photoshop before the new AI options added these last two years). Though this is easily resolved with the interoperability features of PhotoLine (see below).

  • Drawing tools in PhotoLine are good. But not nearly as good as the ones in Krita. Photoshop’s drawing tools also score points over the ones in PhotoLine. It’s not a problem for me, since I send layers to Krita if I really need to paint (see below).
    That said, PhotoLine’s new brush preview is incredibly useful. Photoshop doesn’t have this. It was a bit of a revelation to work with a brush on masks and edges and being able to tell what the end result would be before actually drawing.

  • Some functionality is rather hidden and needs more exposure in the GUI. For example, a colour theme generator is built-in (“harmony”), but it can only be accessed by right-mouse clicking the colour tab tools.
    And it is possible to convert bitmaps to vector. But you will not find this option in the menus. Instead, the user must simply change the layer type from bitmap to vector in the layer properties. Simple when one knows, but rather indirect :slight_smile:

  • hardly any colour swatch libraries or gradient libraries are shipped with PhotoLine. To fix this: download my present library :wink:
    (still a work in progress)

  • here and there old-fashioned functionality seems a bit out of place and outdated. For example, while there is an option to generate simple 3d objects from vectors, it is a rather outdated feature.

Things that are better than Photoshop:

  • the excellent layer stack and how it is managed. I have worked with every image editor since Amiga times, and PhotoLine’s layer stack is something very, very special indeed.
    ** blending opacity from -200 to +200 (instead of the usual 0-100)
    ** layers can be cloned and update in realtime based on changes in the parent. Works with literally anything: layer groups, layer masks, vector layers, text layers, … anything.
    ** bitmap layers are by default non-destructively transformed: position, scale, resolution, skewing, perspective scaling, … All non-destructive. No need for arbitrary “smart objects” or a distinction between bitmap layer types (editable or not) like in Affinity Photo.
    ** editing the pixel data is always possible in these bitmap layers.
    ** layer transforms can be reset.
    ** layer masks act as regular layers. These can be based on layer groups. And any other object. And yes: layer masks can have layer masks, which can have layer masks, and so on. No silly “one bitmap and vector layer mask per layer” Photoshop nonsense.
    ** Adjustment layers generally work faster compared to Photoshop. Nice preview window which Photoshop lacks.
    **adjustment layers can be applied to layer masks. There are no limitations here. Unlike Photoshop.
    ** layer panel settings are far more flexible and configurable compared to Photoshop. Use CTRL-scrollwheel to zoom in and out of the layers, for example.
    *Each bitmap layer maintains its own bit depth, image mode, pixel resolution, colour profile, anti-aliasing setting, pixel alignment setting, and which channels are used in the layer stack. Impossible in Photoshop (or any other image editor other than node-based ones). In Photoshop smart objects are required for this.
  • in image mode the lowest image layer decides the “rendering” intent. Switch that one to greyscale, switch back to RGB, or CMYK - all the other layers maintain their original data.
  • Almost everything is non-destructive. Including masks, channel editing, etc.
  • channels work different in PhotoLine compared to Photoshop. Most tools work directly with specific channels if need be. Layers have the option to control which channels are used or ignored. All non-destructive. In Photoshop a LOT of channel work is by its very nature destructive, since it all must be achieved via the Channels panel - and anything taken from the channels tends to be a destructive step in Photoshop. In PhotoLine a channel mixer adjustment layer (for example) can be added to a layer or a cloned layer (or groups, etc) and then recycled as a mask that is based on one or more channels.

So liberating. I laugh out loud when I see Photoshop users struggle with the Channels to destructively generate masks (which is also possible, of course, in PhotoLine).

  • image dimensions seem unlimited in PhotoLine. Photoshop’s max 300,000 by 300,000 pales in comparison. I’ve worked with files that exceeded a million pixels wide.
  • 16 bit mode is full 16bit. Photoshop’s ancient 15bit (+1bit) 32768 so-called “16 bit” mode removes half the information from a full-range 16bit image. To be fair, ANY other image editor which supports a 16bit mode does this right. Except Photoshop.
  • TRUE combination of bitmap and vector editing in one seamless environment.
  • non-destructive bitmap gradients by default! Oh, and true vector gradients used for vector layers are also available.
  • Procedural textures
  • true vector patterns. And bitmap/vector can be combined in one pattern. Pattern preview mode.
  • better looking layer effects than Photoshop or Affinity
  • work with 1bit layers, including transparency. Photoshop does not support layers in monochrome mode.
  • “smart objects” layers are also possible in PhotoLine.
  • Nice snapping options
  • live vector booleans
  • Editing and working with gradients and patterns/textures is far more user friendly in PhotoLine. And Cubic Interpolation is an option! Stupid Photoshop.
  • “super adjustment layers”- combining multiple layer adjustments and filters in one layer is possible. Not possible in Photoshop.
  • The curve editor is a breath of fresh air compared to Photoshop’s curve editor. And unlike Photoshop it is possible to work in RGB Lab, HSV, and HSL modes in most adjustments without having to switch “image mode”.
  • Page support!
  • Comps like in Photoshop.
  • Actions and batch conversions [A] complete and process much faster than Photoshop, and [B] do not act funky as in Photoshop (you know who you are, Photoshop Actions!).
  • great control over (Anti)aliasing. Creating pixel art in PhotoLine is a nice experience. No indexed mode, though.
  • EXR support. Cryptomatte support
  • Full support for newer web formats. AVIF is also supported in the web export dialog.
  • Even very old image formats can still be loaded. Amiga IFF, anyone? :smiley:
  • Proper web export dialog similar to Photoshop’s classic Save For Web (which is deprecated and doesn’t support any modern web file formats).
  • More than excellent asset export options across the board: use a Generator approach, export multiple versions of assets via the Export panel, base that on canvas size, or layer size, export layers, export pages, export via image file browsers (there are two variants: mini and large image browser), and so on. Photoshop cannot compare here!!!
  • Amazing interoperability with external apps. Any other application can be set up as a “plugin” - as an external program that PhotoLine sends layers or the entire file (flattened) to. This connection remains live.

For example, both Inkscape and Krita are very well supported: send a vector layer (or group of vector layers) to Inkscape, edit stuff there, save, and switch back to PhotoLine: it refreshes the layers automatically.

Krita works the same. Which is perfect for AI stuff: I have the genAI Krita plugin installed. If I need to use genAI to increase the resolution of a layer, or adjust something with genAI (remove or add things), I send that a layer to Krita, perform the genAI actions, save, and PhotoLine updates the layer with the edits. And that includes added layers from Krita (or Inkscape).

This allowed me to set up PhotoLine as a general image editing hub from which I control other design applications. I can also send assets for finishing directly to other apps. Nothing else on the market is so flexible in terms of pipeline (well, obviously Adobe has its own app interoperability - PhotoLine extends it to almost anything - as long as the receiving software saves over the original temp files, it just works.) It saves time. A LOT of time.

  • PhotoLine features a save option to directly save to a JPG, PNG, AVIF, BMP, TIFF, and many more, with an added twist: it will save a sidecar file. When the user opens the (for example) jpg, PhotoLine will actually open the sidecar file, and it looks as if the jpg opens as a PhotoLine native source file.

This is awfully convenient. I use it to save webp and png assets directly to a Godot project, and Godot then integrates those assets. When I open one of those assets, PhotoLine will open the sidecar file, with all the layers and other adjustments intact. Or I save a texture file for a Blender project.

The beauty is that other applications can work with the final flattened asset saved in a compatible format, while the sidecar file maintains all the original source information. Very convenient workflow. Exported assets behave like the native source files in PhotoLine.

  • Classic Photoshop plugins are supported. Even better: just like in Photoshop when applied to virtual layers in PhotoLine (Smart Objects equivalent) those remain non-destructive as well.
  • PhotoLine still support a 32bit version, which is compatible with older 32bit Photoshop plugins - by calling the 32bit version as an external app in the 64 bit version those 32bit plugins remain accessible.
  • Virtual layers can also be externally linked - just as in Photoshop and its Smart Objects.

Finally:

  • PhotoLine works as a portable application. This is officially supported. It is possible to have multiple folders with different configurations of PhotoLine on a USB stick. Handy.
  • WINE on Linux is actively supported by the developers. Including LittleCMS for colour management.
  • PhotoLine’s installation footprint is small. I mean: the Windows installation file is 37MB(!). And that includes BOTH the 64bit AND a 32bit version!

The developers are quite open to feature requests. Bugs are generally squashed in the next beta release. New betas are released every month/two months, or so.

Sorry for the long comparison.

7 Likes

This saves me a lot of time!

Thanks for the long version.

OK, as I was reading there are a few things worth mentining.

My artists do use Clip Studio and sometimes Krita, as well as Procreate.

As I understand it, there is no comparison in any of these apps for animation, and they all also have some resolution restrictions for animation layers, I think.

I may not have this 100% correct. Suffice to say I have heard that they had to do some things in PS because that was the only place to do it.

Most artists don’t actually paint in Photoshop.

The other issue is AE. We also use Resolve and Fusion, as well as Premere. However I use Vegas. Have not found anything to replace it - yet. Unfortunatly it still does not support exr in a good way in my opinion. So we usually use AE or Resolve to process image sequences in exr.

I do like the batch process feature.

So likely I will have to keep a sunbscription or two around for Adobe.

I also like the “floating” license is native in the instalation of Photoline. I will talk with them about perhaps once license/cost for many seats in my studio. Hopeully they are not ass hats like some softeware that actually more than double the cost per seat when you are a studio. Looking at you Adobe - for Teams!

Why in the hell do they think it is OK to chanrge 2x per license when you want to buy more than one seat in a single license?

I could never get my ehad around that. In the rest of the business world when you buy in bulk it is usually rewarded with a discount!

Thankfully email accounts are free…!

Rant over… anyway.

I am going to raise these technical issues with my team and have them evaluate your amazing list of pros and cons and see if we can convert the bulk of our Adbobe seats to Photoline.

Thanks again!

Have you/they looked into OpenToonz / Tahoma2D yet? Great drawing tools, excellent animation tools.

The batch processing in PhotoLine is really solid. And supports a LOT of import formats:

It is sort-of inevitable. I still use InDesign, and sometimes Photoshop / After Effects for specific things.

PhotoLine’s PSD import is good, but definitely not perfects, so I need that for client work.

A license of PhotoLine gives you access to both the Windows and the Mac version. They can be run simultaneously.

I would be surprised if the PL devs would act anything but friendly when you ask them for a studio license.

Just a word of warning: the default settings and GUI setup isn’t the most attractive or efficient. It can push people away initially. PhotoLine is VERY configurable, though - even down to how the layer stack works with short cut keys.

Allow time to familiarize yourself with the settings and configure the program to your liking. And don’t be stranger on the PhotoLine forum! Not that busy, but good knowledgeable people there. Including the devs themselves.

If you run into a showstopper, mention it to the devs and back it up with good reasoning - they will address it.

Also, PL user Shijan created a really nice looking icon set for PhotoLine:

Good luck, and I hope it all works out for you and your team.

3 Likes

Yeah we looked at all the different 2D animation solutions. More or less settled on the stuff we could do by hand and with limited help from puppet warp in PS etc.

Decided to keep it simple.

It’s a mixed bag for us. Lots of moving parts with different artists and different needs/preferences etc.

Then time learning f a new tool.

So we are evaluating it now and see what we come up with.

Gimp. Not Gimpshop is looking good with 3.0 around the corner.

You seem to like this program a lot, don’t you? :upside_down_face:
I finally listened and downloaded the demo as I would like to have a permanent alternative to PS that also runs on Linux. I have been doing more and more stuff previously done with adobe in Krita recently and I like it as an image editor too. My main grief lies with it’s performance. When files are large and layers and masks are plenty, photoshop still wins here. Also I miss the magic selection brush.

So far I am in the initial confusion phase. But you warned me :stuck_out_tongue:
Also I found a lot to like already.
So how would you compare PS and PL performance wise, have you tried it with WINE and if so, how does it run there?
(and does it have a magic selection tool?)

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ok, I am struggling a little bit I have to confess…
Imported a pretty demanding psd file (the psd import really wasn’t good, but that’s more adobe’s fault I guess. Krita botches those too on a regular base)
but the performance was nice. Now I have to understand the UI.
Can you recommend some up to date video tutorials/ quick start guides- german or english?
Right now I am reading the handbuch but it’s quite verbose :smiley:

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Hey Ogonek,

Performance is about on par with Photoshop CPU. Most functionality in Photoshop is CPU based, and I get similar performance.

For example, the 4.6GB Nasa PSB image loads in 12 seconds on my system. After saving it as a PLD (PhotoLine’s native format) it loads in a second. As fast as the PSB does in Photoshop (do turn off PNG compression - the PSB is not compressed either).

Working with a file like that works fine in both apps. Certain things may ‘feel’ faster in Photoshop because of OpenGL acceleration, which PhotoLine’s viewport lacks. I’ve worked with files that are in fact much larger than Photoshop’s max file resolution limit in PhotoLine!

Then again, things like batch processing finishes much faster in PhotoLine, is my experience. And Photoshop runs like a snail on lower-end machines, which PhotoLine has no issues with (there is still a 32bit version!).

PhotoLine doesn’t have any genAI or AI based selection functionality. I am more old-school and create selections based on channels, etcetera. That said, I sometimes send a layer to Krita and use its AI magic selection plugin to create a selection mask and send it back to PhotoLine for further processing.

PhotoLine’s layer stack and masking performance is light years ahead of Krita. I agree that Krita’s layers are very slow in comparison to Photoshop and PhotoLine.

Photoshop PSD compatibility is good, but not excellent. If you encounter a problematic file, send it to the developers and ask if they can improve compatibility for the things you need.

Ah yes, tutorials… There aren’t that many for PhotoLine. It’s a weird situation. Help is best found in the PhotoLine forums. People do post tutorials there from time to time as well. I find the handbuch rather abstract reading matter.

Or ask your questions here - but you will get quick answers (generally) on the official forums. And if you run into an issue/bug or need improved functionality the developers follow the topics and respond themselves.

Usually bugs are fixed by the next beta release. A new user had one of his requests implemented within two betas (allowing layer thumbnails to have various background options).

2 Likes

One of the initial hurdles is the terminology in PhotoLine.

A selection marquee is called a “Lasso” rather than a “selection”. The mask itself (greyscale mask) is called a “mask”.

There are other such terminology mix-ups.

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Thanks for your detailed reply. I think I already got some of the terminology from the manual. That’s just the most important first step. Understanding the differences in paradigms. Like with Krita where alpha inheritance works so differently and eraser, clone brush, etc… are not separate tools (blessing and curse)

I am not at all interested in AI stuff btw. I tried out quite a few things but couldn’t find one that would enhance my workflow except maybe generated images for stylistic/ compositional inspiration.
Animation I do in blender or Krita anyway, bye bye AE. Also I am still on PS CS6, last non cloudy version. No AI but it just has been a reliable companion for years now.

But I want to upgrade my hardware and maybe go full linux. Going to try it on my laptop tomorrow with wine.

I already registered in the forum but am still waiting for admin confirmation.

Mabe I’ll bug you some more in case I hit a wall.

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CS6 also happens to be the last version of Photoshop that I used for personal work and freelance work. Back then I first discovered PhotoLine – the GUI was inflexible, outdated, and many small things could be improved.

Yet it did things I had never seen before in any other image editor. I laughed out loud when I discovered the extended layer opacity range, for example. Genius!

Throughout the years I made loads of requests and many have been implemented.

You’ll find an excellent replacement for Photoshop CS6 in PhotoLine for image editing and compositing. The workflow is superior in many aspects once one gets over the initial difference in approach. For example, it is no longer necessary to work with channels as we tend to do in Photoshop, since tools and adjustments allow one to choose which channels to work with. This means that many destructive channel operations in Photoshop remain non-destructive in PhotoLine.

The workflow is entirely different, but the theory remains the same in both.

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Ok, I am already kind of sold. Discovered the quick selection tool. That’s seems to be a little slower but also more flexible than PS selection brush.
Nondestructive layer transforms without the need for that smart object stuff -great!
I couldn’t find a tool shown in the manual… because the toolbar switches based on active layer type :smiley:
Right now I am looking for the quickest way to make what would be a fill layer in PS/Krita. I can create a new rgb layer, change it to vector type and edit the colour there or use a layer style in overlay mode? Oh the fill tool let’s me generate a vector layer with one click. The mask system is powerful but I have to wrap my head around the terminology. One time the whole image turned greyscale and I don’t know why :stuck_out_tongue:

How do I unlock the background layer? I cannot move it in the layer stack order right now unless I duplicate it.

Man this program would really really benefit from some more introductory tutorials that are not… well old.

so there is a nondestructive liquify tool that can sit on layer masks even. That’s cool. :upside_down_face: Is there any way to destructively apply it?

And please help me here because I am going mad: How do I use the flood fill tool? It shows me the tolerance threshold while dragging, but it doesn’t fill anything. Bug or stupid me? (Computerinsel forum admins enjoying their weekend. Still not admitted to the PL forum :frowning: ) Couldn’t find anything in the help files either. Gradient tool is working fine and as expected and I love the design of it. It seems to be semi-nondestructive. But why can’t I use the fill bucket??? :scream:

One thing that’s nicer in PS is the generall appearance of the UI. Not that I love the functionality that much (Blender has the best GUI, that’s not open for debate :smiley: )
But say what you want, Adobe did a great job on the icons and panel design. Everything just looks very clean and undestracting. The PL icon for mask layer visibility looks like a swatted fly. :stuck_out_tongue: Which doesn’t really scare me off though as
a) I just found out how to customize my shortcuts and record actions. Also the interface is slowly growing on me.
b) PS doesn’t even have that option :smiley:

Now I just have to find out if photoline runs fine with wine. I’d love to hear from other users first because I’d need to install linux as a second OS on my desktop to give it a fair comparison and I am a little afraid of that tbh.

Ok, solved the background layer problem. Also found a way to disable the nag screen / 30 day limit. (so far it is still a theoretical solution) (*)

Still no luck with the fill tool :frowning: (**)

(*)
image

:smiley: love it

(**)
now it works. Somehow all channels were deactivated in the bucket tool settings. :face_with_monocle: Good grief…

Various methods:

[1] double-click on the layer tool → choose colour → Document size -->turn off transparency → OK (bitmap layer is the result)

[2] click the new layer option in the Layers panel (or ALT-N). Same procedure as above.

[3] Create a new (transparent) layer → double click the brush tool or pencil tool. This fills the layer with the current settings of those tools. (bitmap layer is the result)

[4] Use the rectangle tool to draw a rectangle that fills the entire canvas. (vector layer is the result)

[5] Double-click the rectangular selection marquee tool. Click OK. CTRL-SHIFT-J to convert to vector layer. Select a fill colour. (vector layer)

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PhotoLine works in two modes: image mode and document mode. In image mode the background layer actually serves an important purpose: it controls the final rendering intent. If you switch the background layer to a greyscale type, the entire document is rendered in greyscale.

So what, I hear you think? Well, switch that layer back to RGB or CMYK and all the colours return for the rest of the layer stack. This is pretty cool, actually.

Remember one thing: in PhotoLine each bitmap layer maintains its original data, which includes colour profile, resolution, bit depth, image mode, and so on. In image mode the background layer controls how it is rendered, as it were.

In document mode PhotoLine acts more like a layout app. The background layer doesn’t exist, and we can work with multiple pages.

1 Like