Poly vs nurbs (rant)

Thanx for your time and answers

Where did you get the idea that poly artists hate nurbs? I and many artists use nurbs sometimes in Fusion 360 or Moi3d. In fact we LOVE nurbs because of speed and accuracy for concept work. What do you mean by lack of understanding of nurbs? Also game/film artists don’t use nurbs because it’s not production-ready and produces dense, dirty and unoptimized meshes. That doesn’t mean we hate it.

Why hard surface artists are making random details is due to a lack of design skill by the artist, not by whether he uses nurbs or poly.

Pablo Vasquez hates Nurbs …Master Xeon Hates Nurbs… when told about Nurbs they tend to argue that poly is great …if it is so great then why engineers prefer nurbs over polys to make real world stuff…Well u can see Josh Gambrell’s designs,master xeons design…everything tends to be something which has no mechanical significance …it is just to make the product look cool…You can see Alex senechal’s video he has told about it…not to place a bolt or wire where it is not required…and master xeon doesn’t lack skills at all

I even asked pablo whether nurbs tools will be updated or not…he said no…well then why 3ds max has better Nurbs tools than blender and still it is used in industry…polys sometimes ned unnecessary cleaning of topology to make shading better

When asked master xeon said…the only purpose of curves is to create cables…

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Engineers prefer nurbs because it’s mathematically accurate to represent curved surfaces and constructions. It’s quick and can be changed rapidly.
I think you don’t exactly understand the difference between entertainment and practical real world design. If you make all your designs “realistic like engineers do”, you’ll end up with boring models that everyone has seen before and no creativity. We’re artists and designers, not engineers. We don’t need to explain to you why we put a hole and boolean cuts in our models. As long as it looks cool and doesn’t seem arbitrary. A good entertainment designer will add details that look good and don’t make you question its function.

Blender does poly modeling better than it does nurbs. Engineers don’t use nurbs in blender or 3ds max, they mainly used autodesk software like Fusion 360, autocad, etc, because these programs excel at nurbs.

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alias has options for class a surfacing as well as subd modelling…

I am just saying that blender should have better nurbs support so that we can later convert that accurately created surface to poly without wasting time in pushing points to achieve the surface

You can’t really convert nurbs to poly at the click of a button. There’s a lot of hassle cleaning up your nurbs geometry. It’s better to just model straight in polygons and generate your production mesh from that. VFX studios use polys because it’s cleaner and easier to edit, and faster to create without cleaning up NURBS geometry.

Nurbs in Blender are kind of useless and unfinished compared to Maya or better nurbs focused programs. The biggest lover of Nurbs probably would not use them in Blender.

The Nurbs parts of Blender haven’t been touched in forever. I’m surprised they weren’t just removed for 2.80. They probably need to hire someone specifically to clean up and improve and maintain the Nurbs code. Donate more money.

3ds max has many more developers and much bigger budget for a very long time compared to blender. Donate more money. 3ds max had enough money to buy the best 3rd party plugins and officially add them to 3ds max. They probably even hired some of the plugin developers. Donate more money.

You should probably stop using Blender and buy a better program that does not suck.

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Flexibezier tools,curve tools, bexier mesh shaper ,curves to mesh addon makers would have said that excuse too…but they didn’t…they improved it…they didn’t beg for money for blender

As strange as it may seem dev require money …

3ds max nurbs are also missing a lot of features, not as near as toy than blender’s ones, but useless for any serious modelling.
Use rhino if you want a solid nurbs modeller.

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If people want this to be an official part of blender they will have to donate enough money to hire the developer or another developer who is just as good to be a full time employee of the Blender Foundation where a part of their job description is to keep that part of the code working. Building and maintining the underlying program that $10 addon is built on top of doesn’t leave much time and energy to also build and maintain that feature. That’s why someone else had to make it. Even if they stopped selling it and gave the Blender Foundation permission to officially add their code to Blender they wouldn’t be able to do it any time soon because all of their developers are very busy keeping the basic features working. Then when they do find time to review the code they’ll probably decide it doesn’t make sense to add that code to Blender unless they can hire 2 more full-time developers to help maintain that code while the rest of Blender is being upgraded.

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EPIC Games mega grant

blender has good tools …rendering is awesome in blender…but tthe nurbs portion which helps in modelling cars faster could have saved lives…since we need cars and bikes for action short films

Hi,
My modest contribution…

In YOUR case, model in Nurbs under 3DS Max, Maya or any program of YOUR choice (convert to mesh and export your object) … and use BLENDER for the rest …

Nowadays, everyone can find the program that suits him and at the PRICE he wants to put in it.

Having said that, I can understand your opinion about the lack of “power” of the Nurbs under BLENDER … but for the moment it’s like that… :unamused:

is $400,000 per year over 3 years.

I found an article that says there are 5,736 companies using 3ds Max.

An annual 3ds Max subscription is $1,620.

If each of those companies only has ONE license of Max that is 5736 * 1620 = $9,292,320

Almost $10 million dollars per year over many many many years. And that’s not counting the dozens or hundreds of licenses some companies have and the tens of thousands of individual people who have bought 3ds max.

The 3ds Max budget over its lifetime is MASSIVE compared to the Blender budget over its lifetime.

Still blender is getting updated and they are planning for new stuffs… I think the community is not in favour of nurbs that’s y they did not develop nurbs…where as sculpt vertex color…UV ripping …open vdb …flip fluids integration …particle nodes…also needs money for development…they are developing it…

open vdb is open source - Cinema 4D and a ton of other well funded companies contribute to its development.

open subdiv is open source - Disney/Pixar and a ton of other well funded companies contribute to its development.

the new manta flow fluid system is open source - a bunch of academic institutions have had people working on it over the years - it is inferior to closed source alternatives that have had the benefit of massive budgets

sculpt vertex color - was made by one of their most recently hired full time developers. A lot of what he’s doing he had already planned to do years before he got hired to work there. He was donating his programming skills for free to add features that he wanted since he is also a 3d artist. But he’s an artist that does not use nurbs so he has no interest in it. He uses sculpting and a massive portion of the Blender user base also uses sculpting. It would not make sense to tell him to stop working on features he already started planning and coding long before he started working for the Blender Foundation to go and work on nurbs.

UV Ripping - One of many features people have been asking for since forever. It’s a feature that already exists in the 3d modeling area and it probably wasn’t hard to make. It probably just took a long time for a developer to do everything else on their to-do list before they got to the UV Ripping task.

particle nodes - a developer made animation nodes all on their own in their free time and then they got hired by the blender foundation to expand what they already made into a new feature. It would not make sense to tell him to stop working on features he already started planning and coding long before he started working for the Blender Foundation to go and work on nurbs.

Seriously, did you just download Blender last week and have no clue about any of this behind the scenes information?

Nurbs is just one of an endless list of things in Blender that suck. Any day now the developers making sculpt vertex colors and particle nodes could get offered a massive amount of money to leave and go work for Pixologic or Autodesk or Maxon or SideFX, because those companies have the budget to buy their competition.

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Thanks for the credit though I did learn it in a week and figured out how to make this (WIP)…sorry for showing portfolio…i didn’t want to self advertise …but u made me do this










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@Arkoprobho_Gupta

Let me help you.

  1. masterxeon does not hate nurbs. He uses MoI3D frequently, as have I.

  2. NURBS is basically solids modeling-- and mostly used for CAD. It is extremely precise, but unforgiving unless you work in a parametric workflow. Parametric workflows are tedious, and consume massive amount of resources. It is very difficult to do any iterative work in non-parametric tools like Rhino and MoI3D. Solid modelers are great for manifold creation so they excel at things like tool creation and 3D printing. There are a few extremely talented individuals who use non parametrized NURBS tools for concept work-- but iteration (a key part of design) is very difficult if not impossible.

  3. Surface modelers are poly based, and are better for concept work and especially for animation. They are much easier and faster to edit, especially if using modifiers. They don’t have the accuracy of NURBS and therefore are not considered true CAD tools (though programs like SketchUp claim they are–they’re not). Surface models can be iterated with ease and that’s why they’re better for concept generation-- as most designers know an object improves with iteration.

  4. It’s okay to have knowledge of both in your skillset. Just as Blender doesn’t have a full blown version of Photoshop or Illustrator, they don’t need a full solids modeler kernel to be a very productive tool.

  5. Part of your misunderstanding may be the fact product design can take months and even years to create a finished product using CAD tools. Many concept sci-fi artists don’t have that luxury, so they need to develop a graphics strategy and form language to help “sell” the objects they create-- and that’s why the greebles, nurnies, and hyper detail. Still, if you look at someone like Vitaly Bulgarov, he uses NURBS and a sophisticated form language to do basically the same stuff. Check it out at: https://vitalybulgarov.com/

I hope that helps you understand the differences between NURBS (BREP solids modeling) and Surface Modeling (polys like Blender) and when one is appropriate vs the other.

EDITED to ADD: Introducing a solids NURBS kernel to a poly package, is difficult. I’ve never seen it successfully done before (maybe FormZ). NURBS kernels are very specialized and expensive to develop and most (in the case of programs like Rhino and MoI3D) are licensed. Most kernels have been in development for decades or longer-- it is not trivial stuff.

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