Re_forged A New ['Diamond Age']


(BluePrintRandom) #1

ideas like this are the tip of the spear.

we need to be able to recycle and 3d print electronics and robotics at home.

Artists will save this world.

Thoughts on how to lower the cost of such a system to where each home can recycle and sort just about any material safely?


(Morio) #2

Engineers. The word you are looking for is engineers.


(BluePrintRandom) #3

"This leaves a question of whether STEM is missing an A. This science, technology, engineering, art and math, or STEAM, initiative would have art and design integrated into the learning of the traditional STEM disciplines."


(Ace Dragon) #4

The whole idea of 3D printing custom electronics and robots is useless if the average person does not know how to design something that works (even if the technology got to that stage).

You wouldn’t ask an artist to 3D print a robot with the hundreds of little parts needed to make it work (and that’s the easy part, wait until you get to programming the thing). The only thing that would be possible would be if the guy with the printer purchased (or donwloaded) a pre-made blueprint that came with its own code.

You noted adding art to the STEM category, but the tricky bit is that the brains of artists and engineers often work in different ways (there is a reason why you often see programmers and artists doing separate jobs when creating an application). The majority of people can either think in an analytical or a creative way (ie. thinking in both ways together does not come easily).


(BluePrintRandom) #5

yeah, I imagine people learning for years to be able to contribute, and there will be ‘ubber productive’ people, as well as 1 great idea in a lifetime people, but they all can help.

we basically have to continuously raise the education bar, by making educate easy,
(like blender verse with the ability to use virtual terminals, and virtual reality)

teaching physics and math and science in videogames that are interactive simulations is the future.

if art is used to create lesson plans, by people who understand science and 3d animation, this def raises the bar.

the nice thing about automation, is we can afford for people to spend years doing nothing but teaching and learning.


(Ace Dragon) #6

You can’t raise the bar indefinitely though. Eventually, the concepts taught by those lessons would become so complex you would start hitting the walls of what the human brain can handle (due to the sheer number of variables and moving parts). An example of hitting the limits of the brain is the development of bidirectional pathtracing, the code involved is so complex that even the most experienced programmers have trouble understanding what they just wrote. Is it any wonder that major software glitches in some fields are becoming more common as the complexity increases (coupled with an increased inability to fix them properly)?

The only way to move forward then is to let AI take care of the extremely difficult stuff for you (so you only have to worry about the big picture and the larger details). Another way is to upgrade the brain with implantable chips (but that is likely a ways off yet as such tinkering must not be taken lightly).


(SterlingRoth) #7

No. Hard no. When has automation ever increased free time?

What employer is going to spend 10 million dollars on a robot to replace a dozen workers, then continue to pay those workers while they do nothing? This is a lie that has been ongoing for 70 years at least.

Automation will replace labor with capitol, the labor will be fired and poverty will grow. Meanwhile, those robots will continue to generate profit for the executive class and CEO pay will continue to rise.

Could we afford to pay people for years to learn, technically yes. But good luck prying that money out of a CEO’s hands.


(Ace Dragon) #8

You forget that based on BPR’s 17,809 other posts, he is one of those utopian dreamers who believe that labor and work will become the exclusive domain of robots and people will just sit back and do nothing but leisure activities for their entire lives (and everything is free via 3D printing and other tech. so you can have a solid gold Porsche if you want, or ten).

Not only that, but he is known to beat the same drum indefinitely until he gets the desired result (which is unlikely so this will continue for a very long time).


(SterlingRoth) #9

I didn’t forget anything, those are what are known as rhetorical questions. I’d love to have a conversation around those questions. I’m not interested in dismissing people outright. I’m on a forum to discuss ideas, not people.


(BluePrintRandom) #10

“You forget that based on BPR’s 17,809 other posts, he is one of those utopian dreamers who believe that labor and work will become the exclusive domain of robots and people will just sit back and do nothing but leisure activities for their entire lives (and everything is free via 3D printing and other tech. so you can have a solid gold Porsche if you want, or ten).”

No, this is not the idea at all,

the idea is to get everyone’s IQ higher, and get everyone better educated so they can actually CONTRIBUTE to society instead of do busy work.

if we are all free of stress our IQ goes up
Well fed ? Iq goes up
Clean water free of parasites IQ goes up
Access to information IQ goes up a little
Access to people whom inspire you IQ can go up quite a bit.

We need people actually mattering.

We don’t even need the market. the market is a illusion.

When men freeze to death while homes sit empty on the market, the market has failed.

When forests are ripped down, to grow food that traverses the whole planet, and rots on a shelf, while a man outside starves, means the market has failed.

The true goal of society is to produce more, while using less.

I want all to have baseline comfort, NOT extravagant gold cars.

We all need to let go of such foolishness.

When I talk about diamond batteries made from sunshine and radioactive waste I am talking about reclaiming waste CO2 and Radio-Isotopes and making power for 3000+ years safely.

when I talk about recycling , I am talking about turning trash into robots that grow food.
Decadence? no, just a baseline life worth living.


(Macser) #11

he is one of those utopian dreamers who believe that labor and work will become the exclusive domain of robots and people will just sit back and do nothing but leisure activities for their entire lives (and everything is free via 3D printing and other tech. so you can have a solid gold Porsche if you want, or ten).

While it may not pan out in exactly that way. Something like it is a possibility. I don’t think we’re going to keep the current western model for life the way it is, ad infinitum. At least I hope not. :slight_smile:

the idea is to get everyone’s IQ higher, and get everyone better educated so they can actually CONTRIBUTE to society instead of do busy work.

This might offend some folks. But I don’t believe you can “get” everyone’s IQ higher. I think there’s a certain level of intelligence inherent in your genetic make-up. All I imagine you can really do is encourage what already exists, to flourish. Or remove educational ignorance that prevents an intelligence from being allowed to grow. But I think it’s either there, or it isn’t.

The only other way is genetic manipulation/engineering. But that’s a whole other can of wriggly worms.

If you’re going to make what appear to be assertions regarding IQ, it would help to back them up with some sources.
:slight_smile:

As for 3d printing, I think it’s a little early to start rejoicing about it’s positive impact on societies. It may have a bright future. Or it may become something of a fad. Ending up being the preserve of enthusiasts. 3D Printing ,especially the home variety, is not something that works out of the box right now.

I’m not shooting it down though. There was a time when personal computers were considered an expensive toy and nothing more. Considered the sole preserve of nerdy enthusiasts. But over time it developed. I know very few people who don’t have some type of personal computer. Even people who’d describe themselves as techno phobic have them.

Reducing the cost is only a factor in 3d printing in a home setting. If it’s something that’s going to appeal to the masses, and proliferate, then it needs to have a certain level of accessibility. You might take that as simplifying it, or even “dumbing it down”. As unpalatable as that might sound.


(BluePrintRandom) #12

When I said IQ I i did not mean* (raw problem solving potential)

A general (untrained raw) IQ is hard to raise,

However gained wisdom + understanding of a system + communication between a few medium IQ can take the place of a single “wild star” IQ.
(a inference based on lots of data, not a “wild guess”

Basically need to all help teach each other (write down methods thar make learning easier and create lessons, etc, even direct tutoring).


(Ace Dragon) #13

There was a recent study some time back that IQ levels are more malleable than once believed.

It used to be that a person’s IQ can only change by 5 points in a lifetime, but now it is believed that it can potentially go up by 5 points in a single year (it supposedly works the other way too so make sure you use your brain).


I want all to have baseline comfort, NOT extravagant gold cars.

This might seem like a noble statement, until you try to figure out who will get to define what ‘baseline comfort’ is.

In some parts of the world, baseline comfort is a simple one room cinder-block house with beds for sleeping and a stove for cooking (because in those areas, it’s a major step up from a simple hut). That is far different from how we define it in America.


(BluePrintRandom) #14

For me,

automated aquaponics (fruit veggies and fish)
Free internet (ad hoc mesh network)
Free healthcare (IBM watson server w/ many many threads)
Recycling and 3d printing of electronics / robotics in the community
Free education using forums, tutors and Ai.
Self contained modular Power/water/ sewer systems.

I would work 8+ hours a day to upgrade all these systems if I could online,

(open source equipment and software)

RESIST


(Ace Dragon) #15

Which conveniently leaves out issues of maintenance, how it will be paid for (getting rid of money would be almost impossible, the idea of tirelessly making/building things to give away without expecting a return even harder), and a lot of smaller details that need to be taken into account for such things to actually work (for instance, clearly your Ad Hoc mesh network might have trouble with high-bandwidth tasks).

It’s one thing to dream, it’s another thing to actually make it happen (hint, it’s always a bit more difficult than it seems because of variables that don’t even cross your mind).

I’m not even going to comment on the political plug at the end (please note that the forum has a little thing called rules).


(BluePrintRandom) #16

With recycling tech, when things break, you recycle and print them again.

You are making the stuff for yourself.

The contributions are to the design, and documents and code.
(after baseline needs are met)

The resist groups goals are not all political in nature, it is about technology eliminating pollution and yes some goals are about removing corporate control of the government.

Each person is a node, with multiple outbound and inbound,
If someone is using too much bandwidth they would be throttled.

Traditional markets can still exist, for any needs beyond tye baseline.

Basically this actually saves tons of tax money, as the poor are feeding themselves instead of lining McDonald’s pockets etc.


(Ace Dragon) #17

That’s only if a part you needed was genuinely broken, it has no bearing at all on the other things that could prevent something from working (a part in the wrong place or your gizmo not getting enough juice for starters).


(BluePrintRandom) #18

The 3d printer assembles the parts in the first place, it could run the assembly in reverse to reach the broken part and install a new part to fix it/ recycle the old.

The printer I think will look more like this than a traditional 3d printer.

With the ability to use human tools, as well as change out the hand for a printing head etc.


(Ace Dragon) #19

The solution to something that doesn’t work, in many cases, would not require you to discard a part completely and make a new one (it could just be misplaced, needs something added, something is loose, has something that just needs a quick 5-second fix, is just incompatible with something else, ect…).

It also would not always require the assistance of your 3D printer (unless of course you hopelessly mangled the blueprint that was fed to it).


(BluePrintRandom) #20

Yeah,

Ideally, everyone is learning art, science, coding and engineering, etc.

So basically, there is still labor, it is just far less, and you are working for yourself,

While working for you, you document and fix bugs if you can, or push improvements upstream, to be reviewed etc.

Your local aquaponics fail? You and or your neighbors fix it, and you give them a beer or two you brewed :3

The idea is constant incremental improvements.

A market could still exist, as long as its not ravaging the planet.

We need a little balance and to close loops and simply life by distributing the complexity and basically making everyone ubber earthships.
Preferably 100% sustainable materials.

Also, some care needs to be taken to limit overpopulation etc.

Right now though, if a concerted effort were directed at popping everyone off grid and get them printing / iterating design / learning by doing and studying etc.

This would disrupt most of the industries responsible for the destruction of the ecosystem.

Apple does not want modular upgrades / repairable design and incremental improvements, they want to sell you more phones.

Imagine of you yourself only used the contents of 1 system for your whole life, but had everything you needed,

Each man should not leave a scar on the earth, we should leave a green patch of peace.