The choice is ours part 2

The new age communist propaganda!

@Akira_San: As opposed to old school communist, capitalist or environmentalist propaganda?

I am not into comunism, or any of that, I am into 3d printing at home, solar panels, water filtration etc,

I think we would all find life more simple if
more stuff around us was open source engineered

like water filtration, fuel production, food growing systems,
that are as passive as possible, and easily fixed.

we should all be more and more self suficient with less and less effort,

I think of it like technologies, that can create things out of things we currently waste.

lastly I think we need a democracy without a systen designed to,cancle itself out.

Stack echange for government, curated by mods.

also as automated labor picks up, it kinda turns everything on its side until we change the way the system works, you cant compete against infinite free labor that machines can offer,

we need machines to work for the benifit of all, not just the rich, or it we dissolve the economy anyway.

There are a lot of theories out there regarding the… management of the human race, call it communism, capitalism or whatever. No one really knows for sure which, if any, known system of management is best. Personally I believe that so long as there is suffering alternative theories deserve to be looked into, regardless of whether they align with my own beliefs or not.

Any theory has as much likelihood as being ‘correct’ as the next, best I can tell. Personally I believe any theory on the subject has as much ‘right’ to exist and be supported as any other.

It took 80 years for the communism to take shape. Its the same here. The Venus project and the Zeitgeist are a new socialist movements. They want to change how the people think and see the world around them! They are a globalistic - multicultural - idealogical! Telling the people, that the robots gonna do all the work and stuff like that is just bullshit. No more than a Jewish Zionistic ideology. The Roman dream, have fun and let the slaves do all the work for you.

If you want to see such a free world, you need to let the nations develop without the outside influence, messing with the cultures and destroying the race.

To be honest I don’t even know what some of those words mean, but that’s neither here nor there. It may come as a shock to a capitalist, but believe it or not some people like communism, likewise as I’m sure it may be unbelievable to a communist, but some people actually like capitalism.

As such, I must ask, why is it that a communist should be a capitalist and why is it that a capitalist should be a communist? I mean, why can’t a capitalist be a capitalist and a communist be a communist? Why are they always trying to conquer one another? Honest questions

we need a system that works,

I really would just like a true democracy rather then a feudal oligarchy.

just take money out of the equation for government decisions, and allow each mans voice to matter as much as multibillion dollar corporations.

Make each home more sustainable and comfortable over time, as a second goal.

with direct recycling, 3d printing, metalic sintering, sputtering chambers and other tech, you could have a small factory the size of a car, print just about anything. (print electronics in sputtering chamber, embed electronics in plastic, composite plastic and carbon fiber to make supports inside etc.

Combine this tech with some sort of smart recycling tech, (like a ‘anti’ 3d printer?)
that grinds up devices into different powders and saves them to use to print again?

Maybe stroe a 3d printing file in the object that was it’s deprinting?

Take a look at Ukraine for instance. It would appear that Russia believes they are saving Ukraine from an American backed coup. Meanwhile the Americans probably think they’re liberating Ukraine from a Russian backed puppet government. Can’t really say that either one is right or wrong, just that they both think they’re doing the right thing for the people of Ukraine and the people of their respective countries.

Obviously no one likes to see war and the hardship that comes with it, especially not Ukraine at this point I’m sure. Really, though, the hardship here doesn’t come from the inherent differences between capitalism and communism, but the fact that both the capitalists and the communists believe the other should, forcibly, be more like themselves.

I mean there are capitalists and there are communists, obviously there’s more than just that, but for the sake of simplifying things there’s that. To the best of our knowledge we can say that capitalists exist and communists exist, that is true the best I can tell and it is not really up to me as to whether that is true or not. Capitalists believe communists should not exist and communists believe capitalists should not exist, however; they do both exist and exactly what makes the capitalists or communists believe they know what should and should not exist is beyond me.

It’s not my doing that there exists capitalists and it is not my doing that there exists communists, so why should I believe it to be my responsibility to correct that situation or that I even know if it need be corrected.

P.S. So I guess what I’m saying here, BPR, is that I think it’s great that you’ve put some time and effort into coming up with your own ideas and solutions, but my advise, take it or leave it, would be to not fall into the same mistakes that people have made for far too long. You wanna do things your way, that’s great, you wanna find a few people to do it with you, even better, but don’t start trying to make people follow you, it will only lead to disaster. As every rebellion, every coup, and every war has shown us.

Throughout history every nation that has risen and fallen has done so under the same banner. “Follow me and I will lead you to heaven.” In the end though, it’s only ever lead to disaster.

If everyone printed their own hardware for free, then getting software to run on everyone’s machines would be an absolute nightmare as everyone would have their own ideas and nuances about the ideal chip architecture for their performance needs. (you might have blueprints that people could download but it wouldn’t stop many from making little customizations and tweaks).

This assumes that it even becomes possible for home printing machines to print chips with parts closing in on being just a handful of atoms in size (and doing it flawlessly at that).

I really would just like a true democracy rather then a feudal oligarchy.

And if someone wanted to make it legal to shoot a man dead in the street for saying something offense (or for choosing something like the BGE over Unreal 4), they can actually get something like that up for a vote under this type of system. Someone has said before that true democracy is just one rung above anarchy in terms of social order. Everything, no matter how ugly or heinous, must be put up to a vote on whether or not to make it the law of the land should someone request it.

Thank you for sharing

actually, I think things are progressing that way already,

people are starting to think about what we can do with technology

rather then what we have done,

I dont want to lead, or follow anyone,
I really just think of the future and,what may happen,
and what we could change to make it better.

I think open source ecology, and 3d printing, and direct recycling,
are a great start,

now imagine some one open sources a robot that tends vegitibles like a hawk,

and produces amazing food with solar power, with no effort.

I also like aquaponics, and solar gasification,

imagine a farm that almost ran itself, that was a small verticle garden,
with a pool of algae and a large glass orb, that makes carbon nuetral diesel.

at any home that wanted one. it would mess with economics but probably be better for everyone, but the economy

Incompatible ideologies are incapable of sustaining themselves equally in a vacuum that is the world market economy.

Economies that rely on cooperation with others requires common agreement. Capitalism and Communism are diametrically opposed. But either would work if, say, the entire world were Communist or the entire world were Capitalist etc. But because there is a difference in ideological opinion in how better an economy and the state can be run, there is going to be that inevitable clash.

capitalism vs communism is a problem,

however the problem is competition in the first place being placed above cooperation,

some markets needs are met through capitalism, while some should not be… ever.

For instance, For profit medical systems are not a good idea.

They should just fund research with tax money collected in the name of ‘unviersal health care’

insurance is very screwed atm.

I think that the problem is not Communism vs Capitalism, but what parts of society should be for profit, and which ones
should not. for instance, government officials should not operate for profit, but they do.

ideally government is a bunch of small solutions that add up to great functionality with little invasive tactics.

So both capitalism and communism could work, but only in a world where there is only capitalism or communism. If this is the case then one must argue the inherent shared fault of both capitalism and communism. They only work if the whole world subscribes to one or the other, but the whole world does not subscribe to one or the other ergo they do not work.

That is to say that capitalism and communism both aim to take the world as it exists and forcibly alter it. So neither capitalism nor communism work at this point, the two ideologies seek to alter humanity, that is try to change humanity so that it conforms to the capitalist or communist specification and thereby either ideology would work, in theory.

Just seems like it’d be easier to design a system around what exists rather than trying to change what exists to fit a system. Coming up with new theories is a piece of cake, but taking over the world proves rather difficult, perhaps even impossible.

Perhaps it is the authoritarian ideology that is particularly self destructive. Authoritarian in and of the fact that one should be forced to adhere to the ideology of another. Capitalists wage war upon communists in a bid to force the communists to obey the capitalists and the communists wage war upon the capitalists in a bid to force the capitalists to obey the communists. Ultimately this war has arrived at the point where any further provocation would result in the complete destruction of the human race. The two wish to force themselves upon one another, but there is no winner, they are only both destroyed.

@BPR: That’s socialism, it’s what comes about when capitalism and communism compromise.

P.S. Ideologically speaking there are some people who believe in pure capitalism and some that believe in pure communism, but in practice today every country is some level of socialist.

Under pure communism there is no government, one of the reasons why it would only, theoretically, work if the whole world were communist, otherwise they’d have little means to defend themselves against the capitalists.

Pure capitalism isn’t really all that different. The government doesn’t have any real power except to maintain a military and financial matters regarding that maintenance. The free market governs everything and the government has no power to regulate that market. Ultimately under these circumstances capitalism quickly disintegrates as ultimately one organization conquers the others and you’re left with essentially a monarchy that dictates what the population does through control of production and distribution. This was very nearly demonstrated in the late 1800’s when the American free market boiled down to JP Morgan and John Rockefeller. JP Morgan was, personally, so wealthy that he single handedly bailed out the US government from what would otherwise have been default. Although I believe Andrew Carnegie was the world’s richest man at the time, having sold his business to Morgan after deciding the game just wasn’t fun anymore. (My memory’s a little hazy, Carnegie may have sold his business after Morgan bailed out the government, can’t remember)

If I recall correctly JP Morgan, John Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie actually bought the US presidential election for William McKinley fearing the popular Theodore Roosevelt would win and destroy their businesses. Their conspiracy was a success, however short lived. McKinley was elected president, but was eventually assassinated giving the presidency to Roosevelt who then proceeded to break up their respective businesses.

As for socialism, no one really cares for it, it’s not really a choice so much as a lack of options.

P.P.S. In regards to Rockefeller, Morgan and Carnegie buying a US presidential election. It’s not a conspiracy theory, although it was technically a conspiracy. It’s no secret, historians know about this and after the fact there was never any reason to keep it a secret. There’s nothing illegal about buying a presidential election. The three simply put their wealth together to support their candidate. Although, as I understand it, Carnegie never felt comfortable about doing that and perhaps that played a role in his decision to get out of the game.