The US Government ... wow.


(Waffler) #1

A friend of mine just told me about http://www.theawaregroup.com. The articles are extremely interesting. Who could have guessed that us Americans live in such ignorance. Our government is a huge mess - bankrupt, way in dept, controlled by banks … Nobody owns any real money, and nobody ever really owns their “own” land. Loopholes have been found for the government to get around the Constitution, and we are unwittingly forced into something entirely opposite of what was in mind when the country was founded…

Interesting.

I do not think I would ever do anything about it, but it’s still interesting. I’m just a little shocked.


(VelikM) #2

It’s not that there are any loop holes, it’s just that the gov. has desided that it’s not convient for them to live by the constitution, as it keeps them from doing what ever they want to do, so they just ignore it.


(Dittohead) #3

that’s all jokes right??

i mean no one really belives any of that hot air.

it’s all based on the way they interpret the constitution.

they have no idea what it meant back when it was wrote.

this country and the rest of the world are on the down turn if anyone believes that.


(Dittohead) #4

non of thats fact, it’s all opinion, but it’s presented as fact.

it’s sad how people can make statements like what at that website, they are making them selves sound just like the government they are saying so bad.


(Cessen) #5

I have a general dissatisfaction of the US. I want to move to another country (perhaps the Netherlands? Hee hee hee… here I come, Ton) once I’ve gone to college. Of course, no country is perfect, but it seems to me that while most (of course, not all) other countries are getting better, the US is progressively getting worse. Unless the next US president starts shaping up the country, I’m leaving.


(Cessen) #6

non of thats fact, it’s all opinion, but it’s presented as fact.

it’s sad how people can make statements like what at that website, they are making them selves sound just like the government they are saying so bad.

I haven’t looked at the site, but I suspect that you are right, Dittohead. Note that all of my post is phrased as opinion (“it seems to me…”) except for the last sentence, which I assume everyone will take in the context of being my opinion.

BTW: most of my dissatisfaction with the US is not about what the government is doing, but rather what it is not doing (for instance, it generally does not listen to the UN).
Also, I don’t like the culture over here… it’s generally not very friendly (when I went to Norway there was a distinct warmth from complete strangers that is distinctly lacking here in the US). Of course, the culture cannot (and shouldn’t) be moderated by the government. So I guess its not just the government of the US that I’m annoyed with. It’s the culture as well.

Anyway, my point is that my dissatisfaction with the US is my dissatisfaction. I don’t claim that anyone else feels that way, not do I claim that my opinions are “right”. They are simply my feelings, and my opinions.


(paradox) #7

Cessen the culture of the US depends entirely on where you live. You mention that people are not friendly, well that depends on where you live. I lived in Portland Oregon and Vancouver Washington and found the friendliness of the people was completely different even though they were only separated by a river. People in Texas I found to be very friendly and open. In Idaho the same. So don’t judge the culture of a country by one area. The USA is big enough that if you don’t like something move to someplace different. As far as the government is going if you don’t like the way it is going then get involved and change it.
Sorry but there are too many arm chair people who set around and complain about things but do nothing to change it. There are alot of active legal groups working to make changes in the way things are.
Whoops sorry didn’t mean to get caught up in this discussion.
Paradox


(Cessen) #8

Cessen the culture of the US depends entirely on where you live. I lived in Portland Oregon and Vancouver Washington and found the friendliness of the people was completely different even though they were only separated by a river. People in Texas I found to be very friendly and open. In Idaho the same.

Certainly. I have relatives in vancouver, whom I visit frequently. And I went to Texas for SIGGRAPH 2002. And I do agree, culture is different in different areas. The “friendlyness” was just an example. There are other cultural things that, as far as I can tell, are present throughout the US.

As far as the government is going if you don’t like the way it is going then get involved and change it.
Sorry but there are too many arm chair people who set around and complain about things but do nothing to change it.

I am involved. I vote, I write letters to government officials, I express my opinions. And I will continue to do so. But I don’t intend to stay here if things aren’t going to change relatively soon (such as when I graduate from college… which will be a while, seeing as I intend to do it part-time, and at the moment I am still in highschool). I guess that’s kind of what I was trying to say in my first post. :slight_smile:

(BTW: lack of involvement in the government is one of the cultural things that I don’t like here… though I have no idea if its different in other countries, since I haven’t lived anywhere else for an extended amount of time.)


(Waffler) #9

Dittohead, even if it is oppinion, the site still continously points out what polotitions said, what the suprime court ruled, etc. If it is not at least somewhat factual based, then how do they cite court cases, government documents, and congressional records? In “The Bankruptsy of the U.S.” article, did the author just make up the opening statement, where in 1993 the Speaker-Representative James Traficant, Jr. said that the U.S. Government was bankrupt?

Don’t get me wrong. The site may be very much tainted by certain opinions, so not everything should be blindly accepted … but saying that it has absolutely no merrit almost seems equally unwise. I do not know whether everything is true or not – further investigation would be necissary for that – but saying that it is nothing without even looking at what they had to say…

I am not saying that I am anti-government, or whatever. It’s just that, perhaps, people do not pay anough attention to how the government is really set up and what they are doing. Whether somebody thinks it is absolutely true or not does not mean a little interest is harmful. Maybe the site’s author did get a little carried away – comparing the U.S. government to Communism for example. Maybe he is wrong for saying that the government is as bad as it is, but what has happened in history still happened.

I’m not exactly sure what I’m trying to say, except preaching what the site says might be dangerous, but so might be entirely disregarding anything that is said. In all reality, what I have read would in no way effect my behaviour or thought pattern, because there are certain ideals that I personally belive are more important than any human government.


(Waffler) #10

Oh yeah. Even before my attention was directed towards this site, I wanted to move to somewhere in Europe for at least a couple years … although I do not think I would stay permanantly.


(Dittohead) #11

But some of the things they say in their have what they want you to hear, nothing more.

they’re not saying and showing you the whole story, just wha they want you to here, and what they want to here.


(IngieBee) #12

I don’t mean to sound like I’m putting you down, but I think that’s an excellent idea. I think everyone should at least travel and try, when possible, to live elsewhere. I truely think you’ll see the USA in a different light.

In Germany, Women get 3 years paid leave when they have a baby, in 3 years, they can have another and take another 3 years off-Paid! Who pays for such luxuries? The people are so taxed, the economy is truly stagnant. I suggest you go and see socialism first hand. There are many good things about it, but I think you will find social class is not nearly so easy to breach as it is here. A poor person from Mississippi can become a wealthy socialite. All they need is talent and brains and will. Ultimately, nothing can hold a person back in this country.

In Europe, sure it’s a “free” society, but I claim the Taxes keep small business down.

I’m sure others feel differently. I would love to have gotten to stay home a year, let alone 3 years with my children when they were born. It’s a trade off, but at the same time, I like the oppertunities here, the rewards for hard work, the challenge.

You can’t really know why the US is the way it is, or what it’s about untill you visit the world.

I hope you get the chance. Good luck

Ingie


(Dittohead) #13

that’s right ingie.

they are mostly socilast countries over in europe.


(fullback) #14

If the site is using James Traficant as a reference or resource it is already suspect in my opinion. You know he’s in jail, right? He was very paranoid, strange, constantly looked for conspiracies, and wore (again, my opinion here) the worst toupe ever created. Oliver Stone was sane compared to this guy. BEAM ME UP!

Yes, this person is (was) actually a congress-critter. Hey, doesn’t that look sort of like the Blender radiosity symbol in the background?
http://www.wattfarm.com/blog/photos/traficant.jpghttp://enquirer.com/editions/2002/03/01/traficant_zoom.jpghttp://www.warrenpages.com/traficantconvicted.jpg

Those are some bitchin threads, James. Rock on! :o


(acasto) #15

Did you even follow the case. Or just catch news clips of his outrageous momenets. Because if you did follow it, then I’m sure you know about all the supicious stuff that the government seemed to be covering up. Hmmmm… somebody thinks the FBI and the IRS is a bunch of crooks… well, I guess that makes them crazy.


(fullback) #16

Do I think the government has done some crooked stuff in the past? Yes.
Do I think the motive behind the auditing of certain people or groups/institutions by the IRS involves politics? Yes.
Do I think James Traficant is the beacon of light that will burn through all the B.S. and expose the crooks and corruption? No.

I didn’t follow the entire trial, but the interviews he gave that I saw (which were more than soundbites) seemed to lack something — coherence. It’s one thing to weave a tangled web of conspiracies etc., it is something entirely different to prove they exist in a court of law. He obviously failed miserably with the latter. Perhaps if he hadn’t defended himself (he decided against using a lawyer) he would have done better. I don’t know.

If you believe everything Traficant says then you are entitled to your opinions. In my case, I’m afraid I’ve seen too many politicians (and lawyers) divert attention from missbehavior by telling TALL tales. It doesn’t work anymore.


(Timothy) #17

lets be carefull here guys, I have a feeling the cia is watching this website :slight_smile:


(fullback) #18

I’m not worth their time and effort Kib. :stuck_out_tongue:


(overextrude) #19

More fuel for the fire (albeit a bit more mainstream). A tale of collusion between the insurance industry, local law enforcement, and a private contractor. (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/084jzvux.asp)

It’s a long article, but it’s worth reading.

What do you bet that Trafficant ends up on a list of highly-paid industry lobbyists?


(shibbydude) #20

From the site:

It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress in session June 5, 1933 - Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.

I am highly skeptical about this. This says that we have no government and that is just plain lies. I really do think that this site is one of those “dupe you into thinking that other countries are better but they really do just have the same problems” kind of site. I am now dumber for having written this.