Trying to replicate 2.79 Phong/Lambert shading

Support Materials and Textures
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Ok, am done dealing with This non-sense

First off one, You don’t Need Internal to really make it, You mostly Need Phong and Lambert shading, the features that were availabile for those Shaders that were in Internal or basicly any old 3D Engine at the time (example, Having Colored Specular,so you could make it where the Diffuse was Red but the specular was Green while still having a normal White Pointlight)

Without Those things it is 100% impossible to recreate the look, as you Need to use Phong and lambert shading, otherwise you’ll only be greeted with something that sorta looks similer but breaks down as you start adding more detail resulting in it nolonger looking like 90s CGI or more specificly, Phong and Lambert Shading, which of course Those along with all the features of them have been replaced in recent verisons of blender by PBR, and are going to be pretty hard to recreate without having the shaders themself, and i don’t exactly Think anyone here wants to manually recreate them every single time as that is what you call Pain and an actual waste of time and sanity

Much like how for example in Internal, You actually had a menu that had all the basic Settings you needed by default, even a texture menu that you didn’t need to use nodes for and it was just all there, and you could easily get somethin setup in like 5 seconds without needing to mess with nodes at all, and usually only needed to mess with em if you wanted to get somethin more complex WHILE still having access the basic settings that were already built-in by default

Now in recent verisons you outright cannot do that, You now have to waste possibly 2 or 5 mins Each time, recreating those settings, instead of it only taking LITTERALLY 5 seconds to get a material and texture set up with ease

Now i do agree internal is a mess a bit as its just outright a old Raytracer from when blender first released on IRIX operating systems that still uses CPU for its rendering rather then GPU like it should be using, but appearntly doesn’t, but Those things, and the MENU SPECIFICLY, need to be readded and not in a butchered form like it is currently as it just makes being an Artist actual pain having to recreate that stuff each time when you’re not even trying to do anything thats remotely complex, and are just having nodes shoved down your Throat when it shouldn’t require it for something so simple and so EASY to do

its actually a reason am still stuck on 2.79 because am not wasting 5 or even more mins of my time to do somethin like that, in combo with recreating ALL The settings i need for that when i have it all there instantly and can just do what i need to in the matter of 5 seconds, PLUS the Fact Phong and lambert are missing which are actually needed for a Project am working on

But More so the Menu missing i feel is prob the most painful Thing, and sure it exists in some form but its butchered and is nolonger comparable to what it was originally, i’d image only reason no one complained is that it was likely the same in cycles too, but in Internal You just had a menu with everything there already, Didn’t have to code the features back in or anything using shaders or nodes, it was just there already, all the basic settings you needed to do stuff

but yea, either way this Crap is getting on my nerves since besides the Phong and lambert shading which i myself do technicly need, That FREAKING MENU missing is what prob stops me from using the new one the most if am tryin to do somethin SO FREAKING BASIC as loading a texture and just having insta-access to the settings it should already have available to the artist by Default, but now Have to recoded in, Each and everytime, resulting it in just being a time waster, and therefore not even worth recoding each and everytime, its one if its actually a complex thing that DOES need to use nodes

But its something that is SO BASIC but requires that

no

just NO to that

Not when before You didn’t need to use nodes for that, You just had all the options you needed for the material or loading textures already there by default in a Menu, and you STILL had access to nodes if you wanted to use it, While still giving the Menu Options that should just be there by default for the materials and adding textures and the settings for The textures

Again This may not have been the case in Cycles, but it sure enough was the case in Internal

and again i aint sayin to readd the Internal but FREAKING PLEASE just readd the Freaking Menu on the side that had all the settings for a material and textures there By default, since it is actually a freaking Time waster having to remake the settings using the shader code/Nodes Each and every time and is just not WORTH my time doing that every single time when before it was just There, already built-in by default

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and for the TL:DR for that last thing in the comment

There used to be a Menu in Internal that had settings for the Materials you created, examples being, what color its diffuse should be, color of specularity, how intense the specularity should be, what shading type should it use, what shading type should the Diffuse use, and a bunch of other stuff or how reflective a material should be, or if it should be transparent or case shadows or not, and a bunch of other things

and Then if you had the material selected and you went to the Textures panel, then you had access to where you would add a Texture to the material, and You’d just add it, and either load an image or one of the various Noise Generators, and There you go, you were good to go and had all the settings you needed in the Texture itself, already there by default

And Ontop of that, if you needed to use nodes, you could, and you still had access to those settings while still messin with it in various ways, if you wanted to use nodes for loading textures and stuff

But in the new verisons of blender, You cannot do that, You have to basicly recode all the settings it had built-in by default, and compared to where i could just get something easily and painlessly set up in 5 seconds that takes like 2 or 5+ mins to do well yea

using the new blender is basicly a waste of time without that old Menu it had, That really needs to be recoded in, as its not like it harmed the artists ability to do stuff, if anything it just made it easier and less Headache inducing

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It takes a couple nodes to set up what you’re asking for, but it’s entirely possible in Eevee:

2023-05-01 13_28_06-Blender
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Right, but you still need the Phong and lambert shading for it to have to the correct look, since as long as its still PBR it will not look correct or really, old looking at all for that matter, infact what you showed me looks slightly off to me for how it should look (example being the tiny white dot i noticed that should not exist, as the whole specular should be colored green with no trace of white left), Infact here, I’ll post an image of what That should look like

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P.S.: I love those posts which always remind me of what a wise man once said:

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The way it looks is still slightly incorrect

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It’s entirely within your power to play around those nodes and adjust them to your liking :slight_smile:

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Right, i still need the shading to be Phong and Lambert tho

i Also need to NOT have to recreate it each and every single time, for every single freaking Material i create

Theres also still the issue that the Menu That should exist has been removed from newer verisons of blender which just making creating materials a bit more painful and slightly irritating to do, and even a waste of time somewhat

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Also What verison of blender are you even using atm since am prob using whats closest to the recent one, and am missing Those shaders you have completely, Mainly the Shader to RGB and Specular BSDF

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Dude, if you are happy with 2.79, rock on.

The architecture of shading has changed in the past 20 years, modern blender will never be the way it used to be.

If you want to use new technology, then you need to learn how to use new technology. But if you are fine working with vintage tech, then there is literally nothing stopping you.

However, if you want to convince the blender developers to get blender 3.6 to cosplay as blender 2.79, it just isn’t going to happen. My new pc doesn’t have a floppy drive. My car radio doesn’t have a cassette deck. My monitor doesn’t have a VGA port. Technology changes, and you can roll with the changes, or stick in the past. Turning the future into the past isn’t an option.

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Am Not asking them to cosplay anything, am just asking them Readd 2 Simple Things, The Phong and Lambert shading, which doesn’t have to be High Pior but should still get readded as shading options at some point

The Other thing is, The Menu it used to have for Editing materials and Textures, This one does not have any excuse for it being removed at all, since the only thing it did was make it easier to actually make stuff, and not make it be more Troubling or hard like it is right now to do somethin pretty freaking simple, i Know how to use the nodes the system, my Problem is its a waste of my time just to do something so simple and easy such as Loading a Texture and Then editing its UV Cords for example in some kind of way, i now have to readd the stuff to do it, where before, You didn’t need to, The settings just existed already in the Texture itself and you had it availabile to you from the start

and Readding the Menu does not mean, Remove nodes, both of them Co-existed, and They can certain Co-exist again

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Feel free to submit a patch. it sounds like you have a good grasp on what all needs to be done, given how confident you are that it is a simple change.

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Am not saying Readding the Menu is a simple change, am saying that the menu MADE creating materials and textures more easier and simplier for the artist, and as i mentioned, both Nodes and that Menu pretty much Co-existed and worked with each other, just instead of needing to Readd all the settings using nodes, you had all the stuff you needed from the start, and right there to easily modify and change to your hearts content

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I am not sure why there is such a desire here to go back to before the days of PBR. A lot of artists were quite ecstatic to get off of those old models because of how your scene could go from looking good to looking like garbage as soon as the lighting changed (because of the lack of energy conservation).

As mentioned, the old Blender versions are there if you want to relive the headaches regarding things like materials that hold up in more than one scene (not to mention all of the random limitations like no recursive blurry reflections or hair shaders that do not show up in glass). The Blender devs. have a lot on their plate already and the last thing we would want to see is Cycles features delayed in favor of bringing back 90’s tech.

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Maybe it has something to do with the fact That the more shading options you give the artist, the more styles and looks the artist can do that can actually look more unique then normal

phong and lambert shading i’d agree are not Good for Realistic Graphics, but They are Good for creating Cartoony or stylized Graphics that just look Different from what you’d get with PBR, since Yea if you’re tryin to create somethin that looks realistic with it, it aint gonna look that good, if you’re not aimmin to do that and just creating somethin unique, then you’ll more likely to get somethin pretty interesting out of it

Its all the matter of how you actually use the shading, and if you’re using it correctly, since if you’re using it right, it can Look pretty good, if not well yea, it’ll look like a pile of trash

Trying to say somethin like that looks bad cause its not realistic or anything is like comparing paintings to reality since by that logic every painting in existence looks Garbo too

am refering to being able to make stuff like This
image
Ignoring the fact its using the PS1 Model in the BG for the actual map, just specificly the way crash looks, its very, Interesting look and unique and well Cartoony looking, but its in such a way that i feel is kinda hard to get with PBR since its just using a whole alot of different tricks that mostly only work with the old types of shading, or at least that am aware of only work with em

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Have you looked into Grease Pencil at all, as it has a lot of tools specifically for cartoon-style rendering (to the point where you can add the impression of specular highlights)? It works in 3D space too.

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You can also use an OSL script for a basic lambertian shader, but it’s a can of worms that I’m certain you are unwilling to deal with:

and here’s one for phong shading:

Again, I’m sure it’s way over your head, but if you want to slog through the effort to make it happen, there are ways.

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I agree with @SterlingRoth, setting up an OSL material would both be more future proof, and give you access to the GPU as the Blender devs are moving to a GPU version of OSL. Other renderers like Octane also support OSL on the GPU, with some caveats.

OSL is a bit convoluted but it’s not rocket science if you are willing to put some time and effort into learning it.

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Here’s basically Lambert shading in Eevee (Blender 3.41):

screen
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  • Note the empty which is input in the ‘Object’ field of the ‘Texture Coordinate’ node.
  • Note further the fact, this empty has a ‘Copy Location’ constraint on it, which makes it stick to the point lamp, without picking up the latter’s rotation (if any). Ideally lock the empty’s rotation alltogether in addition.
  • Note this assumes a light intensity of 1.0. For different values, you need to alter the ‘Emission’ node’s strength value. You can also add a driver such as to make the ‘Emission’ node’s value be coupled to the point lamp’s ‘Power’ setting (but that’d be quite arbitrary given the latter is in Watts per m²).
  • Note finally, this setup only really works like this for a single point light.

Now, to be honest with you, this is all hardly a completely honest intention to help you. Your goal is really too bizzare. As @SterlingRoth mentioned, it’s much like asking for a floppy disk drive in your smartphone.


greetings, Kologe

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