VDB-WDA disney Cloud scattering tests

Here you can see that an anisotrophy level at 0.975 …As you suggested will destroy the shadows within the cloud.

And compare to one with anisotrophy level at 0.850…which has a better more distinct look to the shadows forming the cloud look.
You can also see at the edges of the cloud where it is less dense, the light penetrates better to highlight it, as opposed to the settings of 0.975.

This sample isn´t exactly the same as the one as I posted initially, but the principles and the showcase describes what I assert.

Perhaps you ment the actual global scattering and it´s anisotrophy? but that one was set to 0.950 actually, so I do not need to do anything on that. :slight_smile:

Anisotrophy 0.975

Anisotrophy 0.850

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The ansiotropy is necessary if you want to correctly model how light scatters through small water droplets in clouds. The step rate and bounces are necessary to get enough bounces inside the cloud to make it white when using high anisotropic values.

No I don´t agree with you…it´s not necessary with that level of anisotrophy, not when it comes to get to this kind of look, physicly correct may not go hand in hand with that.

As I showed you in the images above…the light dispersion will flatten out the overall shading based on that anisotrophy, it is also very dependend on other settings such as absorbtion and it´s a complex shading model i use with curve nodes in various channels, it also depends on how you clamp out the indirect lighting.

Real world settings and how it eventually turns out…isn´t always a functional model for it to look good.

As for amount of bounces, 1024 is insanely high amount of bounces, It is simply none practical to use for rendertimes sakes, and bounces over 50 does very little to the overall shading, thus you can use 50 or lower bounces without sacrificing the proper illumination needed, se below images on an
Embergen fluid cloud model I did…

Step size however, that is of course the case of higher resolution per voxel, yielding more detail in shadows, it depends on the look you want and the actual resolution of the VDB as well.

That said…You seem to know quite a bit around this in terms of physics, so it would be nice if you can join in the discussion on how to Shade the WDA asset the best, the file is free to download…and you know where to start, so feel free to put up your renders of the WDA cloud asset here if you like.
And we may be able to track down the different look of the scattering in relation to bounces, anisotrophy and step rate.

Sample below from Embergen rendered in blender CyclesX…
voxel size 1.
active voxels 4,447,464
Grid resolution 287x287x255

The results of any improved quality between what is changed in volume bounces and in step rate …is negliable.
in this case …Anisotrophy set to 0.8
Step rate 3 vs step rate 0,5
100 volume bounces VS 40 volume bounces.

I could try with 0,975 for this Embergen sample I did…it all depends on what direction the light is coming from as well, for the case of the back scatter and the global scattering for godrays, 0.975 …Wasn´t acceptable with this shading.

I am however not excluding it may work better with this Embergen sample…I am checking right now.
left mouse click to open it in larger size and then one click more for the full size.

Edit…must add,
Since the voxel size is 1 in embergen, simulates quite fast with that Grid resolution…and back in blender using a step rate lower than that, I don´t see it would make much of a difference.
Had I simulated at lower voxel size…it would definitely make a difference, and sure…for very high detail in the cloud, that is what I would need to suffer through with longer wait for the simulation of course.

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I´m sorry, have to correct myself, I wasn´t focused, the sample above with the embergen cloud, I said had an anisotrophy value of 0.8…I read that wrong and took the numbers from another unconnected PBR shader node I had in there, in fact…the anisotrophy on this sample is controlled by an RGB curve…which makes it much harder to determine the exact value for the total anisotrophy direction.

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I dont have any renders because it’s very intensive. So you are correct that it’s extremely inefficient. But from what I’ve tested in the viewport with some procedural clouds, it looks very accurate. Now I used such a high step aswell as volume bounces due to the fact that when I don’t, it looks silvery dark.

That´s why I said it is not necessary with so many bounces, and it´s sort of Insane to do that :slight_smile: unless having a double GPU installation with the latest best cards, and a lot of time and a decent payed project, or a renderfarm for animation.

the quality difference is negliable, just look at my samples, a slight difference…but not much, and as you can see from my previous posts with many different WDA results, they look good enough in my opinion, and they are very well lit and not silvery dark, and I´ve only used 40-50 volume bounces, on a machine that is an Asus Rog GTX 1080, bought in 2017 I think, so by todays standard the computer is outdated.

There are some specific light path outputs that needs to be plugged in the “right” volume inputs, that is part of the trick I use to get it this decent, without having to use thousands of bounces.

With cyclesX and rendering as I do, I get a decent feedback on the interactive renderer within a couple of seconds, and a decent refine that isn´t too noisy within some minutes, to clear up all noise you obviously have to set a lot of samples, the samples rendered in viewport arount 200 samples only, no noise reduction at all in post nor in viewports.

Keep in mind though, you said you tried with fractal noise on clouds with principle volume or volume scatter, that is a different thing VS VDB, the volume material on any mesh has No limit set by a voxel size, or the grid resolution…which means you can set whatever step rate you want…as low as 0,001 if you want.

But as I understand it…using a VDB file wich has a predefined voxel size resolution, it should not matter if you go lower that size in the step rate, it won´t make it look better, procedural noise density driven volume material is however Infinite in resolution.
So it´s a difference between a volumetric material on mesh, and VDB files, where VDB is limited and fractal volume density material isn´t

So Don´t try it with procedural clouds, use this asset from WDA instead.
Granted…the one with the backscatter has only the quarter resolution, while some others in here had the full resolution at over 2.73 gigabyt in filesize, don´t have the exact voxel resolution data in front of me now though.

I love the VDB rendering in blender, it´s decently fast, and give nice results, unlike Lightwave where it frankly is very bad in performance speed and lacks multiple volume bounces, so that is a big bummer.

On the other hand, for procedural texturing of clouds …I love lightwave, where blender is quite frankly, bad it what noise textures you can use, it baffles me that we can´t even access the Cloud fractal that is there for displacements, surfacing and volume displacement, but we can´t use it within the node material setup for volume density.

And the others are too limited, and it has to be setup by a huge mess of nodes which slows it down much more when it is evaluated.

With Lightwave procedurals, it can be done with just one or two to get nicer cloud fractals, but as mentioned…I can´t stay with lightwave much longer due to severe lacks in the rendering system, and lack of development.

I still have to evaluate the planetary cloud and atmosphere model in blender, which you may have something to say about :slight_smile:
I just lack procedurals in blender.

Samples from Lightwave, real world scale diameter of the earth, volumetric clouds, and volumetric atmosphere, the atmosphere is foremost only tweaked by eyeballing scattering and absorbtion colors and assymetry (as it is called there and not anisotrophy( and density and shadow intensity on the volume item, the difference here between blender and lightwave here, is that you use a null and then apply volumetric handler on it, so it´s not a volumeric material on a mesh, you do not need a mesh for it to work, it has shadow density, which is how dense the shadow is when raycast on to ground, and you have shadow intensity which is the darkness control for the shadow within the volume material itself.

and it´s very easy to setup fractal textures with texture amplitude and density controls, however as mentioned before, it lacks true full multiple volume bounce scattering, you may trick your way around that a bit when usin fractals and curves fed in to the various scattering channels.

Feather type clouds…

Basic turbulence clouds…

Godrays are doable in there as well…quality is just not refined good enough, so abit noisy and I choosed to not use GI on the clouds for the test, due to long rendertimes with also a global scattering item for the godrays.

So I aim to try and find my way on to work with procedural fractals and volumetric materials for cloud layers as well in blender, but I find myself limited with the poor set of fractals that are there.

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That orange sunset render is stunning.
I would love to find out more about how that was created.
Shafts of light plus volumetric are something I’m trying out with nebula animations. But finding the very tricky to get balanced.

Hi Chris,

It is tricky, you need to get a lot of stuff right.
The WDA cloud with backscattering and godrays in that very orange way, is simply the global scattering activated (not the more common box volume most folks may use)
For it to work in cycles you need to plug the light path camera ray in to a certain input to the volumetric global scattering.

And map range to determine distance for the volumetric effect to take effect.

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And someone has made a very nice videotutorial, since I didn´t get around to do one :slight_smile:

Samuel Kruger is covering it well, some techniques I also use, the Light path output ray depth for instance is very important.

And He is using the same WDA asset as I have shown initially and that is of this topic :slight_smile:

Just ignore some of the Lightwave stuff, and check this video and perhaps the samples initially in this thread.

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