WW1 Cavalry WIP

[Supernaut]

Thumbnail

Hi! I started another project and wanted to share the progress.

I had this idea for a long time and now I can finally manage to actually start. I’m planning to model a cavalry from ww1 era. Not a lot of people think about cavalries when they hear about ww1, but I think it’s a pretty interesting part of the history.

I’m mostly blocking out and trying some ideas right now, since the whole design is so alien to me it’s taking me a lot of thinking and trial and error. The saddle alone took me hours to just figure out how does it work and it’s still far from being complete. I realized that I’m always modelling the same type of stuff lately, so I wanted to get out of my comfort zone and do something different, so this more like an experimental project and I have no idea how long it will take.

The first challenge was to figure out horse anatomy, I made a lot of human bodies and I can say I’m somewhat familiar with human anatomy but I never sculpted an animal before. After looking at references for hours I managed to do something that looks like a horse atleast. I’m sure there are bunch of inaccuracies in the anatomy, I hope to rework it later on.

Another challenge was finding reference photos for the equipment in that era. I think I spent more time looking for references than actually modelling, and still have a lot to look for since I’m only starting. I didn’t have an idea for what nation to base on the design, but I found more references for german soldiers so I guess I’m going with that, but I’m not going to stress myself with historical accuracy too much, I just put whatever I think looks good.

I was going to make the whole project in zbrush because I wanted to learn zbrush workflow better but then I switched back to blender because it feels way more comfortable and I had a lot of hardsurface modelling to do than I initially planned. So I started sculpting the horse on zbrush, and I will be using it a lot later on when I’m adding the details, but I will use blender for the majority of the work.

I will try to post here regularly, but I don’t know if I can do that, but I hope you enjoy the process with me. And of course, I highly appreciate any critique, feedback or advice.

My main references are these,

[Supernaut]

Hi again.

I finished most of the modelling, only a few small parts are left. I’m happy with the overall look, I’m not too sure about the pose, but I can change it easly later on I think. I will also pose the horse later on, but I don’t want to rig a horse right now so I’m gonna wait for it a bit more.

Next I will start sculpting the details, probably with zbrush (I hope that’s ok?). If you have any suggestions I would be more than happy to hear it.

I’m planning to give updates when I make noticeable progress, do you think this is better or would you want to see the small steps too? I can update this more frequently with smaller changes, let me know which one do you prefer.

[Kologe]

@Supernaut

(I hope that’s ok?)

It’s ok with us, but you will go to hell for it (didn’t your priest tell you this?). Good work really.
I’m just wondering about the horse’s tail a bit.
Is that some kind of temporary stand-in or are you planning to basically try sculpting the hair-volume?
Personally, I’d probably try to go for an anatomically correct tail in the sculpt and try to add the hairy stuff as hair-curves later?

The part of the tail which has bones and flesh in it is rather thin and short in comparison to all the swishy long hair that grows out if it.
It’s fairly well visible on these zebras:

Anyway keep going. I imagine some moody, blue-tinted, foggy morning scene as your final result btw., something with some vibes from the opening scene of ‘Fury’ maybe:

greetings, Kologe

[Supernaut]

The tail is just a placeholder of course haha! I was sculpting the horse and didn’t want to leave out the tail but didn’t want to spend too much time either, so I left it like that. I will remove it later on and add an anotomically correct tail with hair particles as you said. Thanks for pointing that out though!

I don’t have a specific idea for the final render, but I will probably make a moody atmosphere. I’m not a big fan of over saturated look like the one in Fury though, I think it looks a bit too cg and fake, so I will try to tone it down a bit and try to get a more realistic look.

[sacboi]

Congrats!

Can appreciate the time and effort already invested into this project so far which goes without saying, really well done also I gather a first quadruped attempt…amazing!

My only quite possibly nit picky crit, is mostly directed toward your horse and by the way you can take this with a large grain of salt, even though a very long while ago I’d served with two Cavalry Regiments but our trusty steeds were then of the ‘mechanically tracked’ rather than hoof kind

So I think muscle definition particularly rear flank hindquarters, in my humble opinion might be slightly pronounced which otherwise I personally found tended too draw the eye to that region:

Anatomy Of A Horse

Again just an observation from a non horsey person

[Supernaut]

Hey thanks! You’re definitely right about the horse. I actually noticed the rear was a bit too defined tried to fix it but I couldn’t be sure. The problem is that when I look at real horse images it’s hard to see the muscles because the fur covers everything, and when I look at 3d horse models sculpted by other people they are way too muscular, so I was a bit more inclined to make it muscular too. And since this is my first time sculpting a horse, I was trying to learn about anatomy and when you’re learning it’s easier to make a muscular figure.

My main references are these, so I think you can see what I mean. Also thank you for the references you linked, they are really helpful. It’s insane how many small details are there.

But now that I think about it, maybe I can make a bit emaciated and weak horse, I think that would fit the scene better.

[sacboi]

@Supernaut

But now that I think about it, maybe I can make a bit emaciated and weak horse, I think that would fit the scene better.

From a ‘story telling’ perspective too an extent I’d agree, although the Spielberg directed movie ‘War Horse’ for example notably highlighted the unsung contribution made by horses which I also think stands as a testament in a sense to their nobility as well, rather than just mere disposable beasts of burden amidst the horrors of industrial warfare.

[Supernaut]

That is also an interesting point of view. I wanted to emphasise the horrors of the war rather than making it look like a hero. I think the gas mask also gives that look too, so it might fit the scene better. But I haven’t decided yet, first I need to figure out how to make it look skinny and weak.

[joseph]

@Supernaut

But I haven’t decided yet, first I need to figure out how to make it look skinny and weak.

Be cautious not to overdo this- a horse significantly weaker than this couldn’t support the weight of a human + all that gear. If it gets to the point where you can see its ribs, it is no longer rideable for all intents and purposes

[Supernaut]

I finally get to the sculpting part. I started with the clothes. I both love and hate sculpting folds, it’s really fun but I never manage to make it look realistic enough, so that’s a bit frustrating.

I feel like I added too many folds to the jacket, but I have a few references that also have a lot of folds so I couldn’t figure out where to stop. I tend to make all the folds look same no matter what the fabric it is made of so this time I tried to change that. The jacket is really thick so it needs thicker folds and the pants are thinner. I tried to pay attention to that but I’m not sure if I was able to do it correctly.

I didn’t really touched the horse, I will make the adjustments after I’m done with the other parts but I think I’m going to stick to the original plan rather than making a skinny horse. For now I only gave it simple colors.

Next, I think I will continue with the clothes and then start sculpting the saddle and the bags. There will be a lot of stitching so it will be fun. I’m also thinking about using cloth sim for the cloths at the front and the back of the saddle (sorry I don’t know what they are called).

Honestly I wanted to document the progress better but lately I’m losing the motivation to do anything really. I had so many thing I wanted to explain but when I sit and write my mind goes blank and can’t think of anything. Hopefully I can finish this project. At least posting here gives me a bit of motivation.

[Supernaut]

Sculpting/modelling is almost done, I only have some small details left. It was really fun to play with the surface tool in zbrush, it’s crazy how much you can do with only noise texture.

For the leather parts I used noise surface and added dents and damages to the edges very quickly using morph brush. Then used a leather texture to give more details. I think it worked pretty well but I kinda rushed some of the parts because there were so many of them and it became so repetitive, hopefully it won’t be obvious after I texture them.

I used a similar method for the metal parts too. I added a surface noise then used scrape brush, this gives a worn metal texture and smoothes the noise texture. I didn’t add any details to the small metal pieces like buckles, I think it doesn’t really worth it for pieces that small. And the high poly model is around 350 million polys, I don’t think my pc can handle more.

For the clothes, I added a fabric texture but I won’t be using it for the en result, instead I will do it while texturing because otherwise it’s really hard to keep the texture aligned. But I’m thinking about adding damages to the fabric, but I’m not really sure how to do that for now, I might need a torn fabric brushes for that.

I wasn’t really sure about how to make the straps for the helmet, logically you put it under your chin so the helmet doesn’t fall off, especially if you’re on a horse, but I’ve seen so many time it being used like this and I think it looks better visually.

The lastic band of the gas mask was also a bit tricky. I added bunch of loops and randomized the points on each side in blender. It doesn’t look quite like the real one but it’s good enough I guess.

I made very minor changes to the horse. I changed the nose and head shape a little bit and added veins, but I will rework it properly later on.

Next is uv unwrapping which I really hate but there is no way around it unfortunately.

PS: I made a little doodle for the Halloween, it’s really generic but it was a fun excuse to take a break. It’s not worth its own thread, so I’m gonna post it here.

[sundialsvc4]

Very close to my home is what is now the Georgia city of “Fort Oglethorpe,” but before it became a city it was a very important Army post at which a real horse cavalry (several of them …) was stationed. It was the place where most of the tests for what became “the Jeep,” and of many primitive tanks, were conducted. It was where one of the first WACs [women’s] units were put together, and where many medical advances relating to trench warfare were made. (It was the planning ground for what you know from television as the “M.A.S.H.”) In its day, it was considered “the largest, finest, and most modern military post in the country.”

The original Fort was dedicated by President Theodore Roosevelt in 1903, who proudly demonstrated his horsemanship skills by selecting and riding a stallion, leaving everybody else in the dust. Then-Captain Dwight D. Eisenhower was briefly in command in 1917, and served as an instructor. It was surprise-visited by President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who came to review the WACs.

The Army Cavalry gradually and completely did away with its horses before the Fort was finally declared surplus in 1947 and given over to the local citizens, who promptly transformed it into a thriving “ready-made” city by making simple adjustments to what was already in place.

The original “Parade Grounds” are still there, surrounded by the original barracks, stables, and headquarters buildings, although some of it has now been re-purposed for athletic fields and such. The base hospital became a public hospital which still operates, and the original building is still there.

Most of the original buildings are also still in place and being used, and many of course are now on the National Register of Historic Places. Much of the Fort’s installations had expanded into the Chickamauga National Military Battlefield Park which is adjacent to the city, and many building foundations can still be found there.

A very interesting museum captures the detailed history of the place and of the Cavalry, and the city government works hard to preserve and protect what it knows that it still has. If you are looking for authoritative information about horse-cavalry operations from a very knowledgeable resource, they would be an excellent group of people to contact.

A very good high-level introductory video describing the history of the Fort and its Cavalry can be found on this page.

“Now, you know.” (No, this comment was not brought to you by the museum, nor by the local Chamber of Commerce … but I hope you enjoyed the little history lesson.)

[Supernaut]

Hey thanks for sharing that. It is pretty interesting though a bit too specific for what I’m doing. I’m not really going for a 100% historical accuracy, as I’ve said it in a previous post, that would require too much work. But as someone who’s interested in history that was really informative.

[sundialsvc4]

I think that the work which you have done so far is excellent. I’m not sure that the “gas mask,” though, is actually historic. (If you simply “want it to be,” that’s fine.) I think that you’ve done a great job of modeling, texturing, and imagining.

“Fort Oglethorpe” was probably the most important horse-cavalry military base of that period, so it should be an excellent “Google images source” if nothing else. But, the folks at the museum really know their stuff.

[Supernaut]

Thank you for your words. About the gas mask, I actually tried to make it somewhat accurate, can you tell me what part is not accurate, so that I can improve it? I used this reference images,

And also this site has really good information about it. And of course it’s not a finished model, I need to put holes on the filter, and glasses on the eyes.

The thing is I’m making a German cavalry, not a US cavalry. While it is still very helpful to have references from other armies, and I actually have bunch of them, when it comes to details, it’s not much of use unfortunately.

(Btw I just realized that I already have a reference image from 6th cavalry regiment, without even knowing about it.)

[sundialsvc4]

What I’m questioning is whether horse cavalrymen actually ever wore gas masks into battle. Obviously, the horse would die first. So, are there any historical images which actually show this, or is it speculation on your part?

[Supernaut]

Oh, ok I understand now. Sorry for misunderstanding. This is my main reference,

And this is another one,

(I actually posted them in my first post, you can look at it.)

So the answer is yes, cavalrymen wore gas masks. Though I’m not sure how common this was, but nearly all the soldiers had gas masks so I think it’s safe to assume cavalry also had gas masks.

Yes, the horse would die first, that’s why they also made gas masks for horses too. (And for the dogs also, apparently.)

A quick research gave me these pictures, some of these maybe from ww2 or interwar era but I think that’s close enough.

[sundialsvc4]

Very interesting … thanks for sharing.

However, “skeptic though I am,” I do wonder how all of this preparation actually turned out in conflict. Do we have any record of gas-mask equipped animals actually, and successfully, participating in any gas-infested battles?

[Supernaut]

I don’t really know honestly, I’m not an historian, I have a very limited knowledge about ww1. But as far as I know there is no such thing as “gas-infested battles”. They would throw the gas, wait for them to die and then attack. A good example for this is Attack of the Dead Men.

And animals weren’t only used in battles, they were used behind the lines for things like transportation. Also gas masks didn’t provide 100% protection, so it wasn’t like once you put it on you’re immune to gas.

But as I said, I have a very limited knowledge, so if you’re interested in it I’d recommend making your own research.

[sundialsvc4]

Oh, the gases that they used would burn your skin (off …), no matter what “mask” you were wearing.

An interesting conversation. Have a great day. You have an excellent model. Looking forward to seeing this project develop, however you wish to take it.