Yeah SpainII or how to win the war on terror

General Forums Off-topic Chat
1

at the last general assembly at the united nations, the spanish president made a proposal that it would be best to form a new alliance

…an “alliance of civilisation” between the western and the arab world…
education and culture for a better understanding.
if the choice is

a) an alliance of civilisation for a better understanding, education and cultural interchange in peace
or
b) an eye for an eye (and we all end up blind)

what does protect us better from further terror attacks? a or b?

as the other thread with the title “Yeah Spain” is discussing underwear in the yukon…this is about spain and its policy.
could be an example for other countries.

the new spanish government is clearly showing that it is “down to earth”

:o --just happens that I live in Spain (Im not a spaniard)

The new socialist government does not exist because of the 3/11 terrorist train-bombing in Madrid (many commuters died on their way to work/school/university when they blew up 3 trains simultaniusly). The terrorists came from marroco. A couple of weeks later they comited sucide, blowing themself and an apartement building where they lived up, when they where about to be arrested.
There is more to it, than meets the eye at first climpse.

The former government of Spain decided to actively participate in a war that UN general secretary Koffie Annan qualified as illegal, since the beginning and did confirm this statement a couple of days ago.

Koffie Annan(United Nations): “The Iraq war is an illegal war”

There were huge demonstrations against this in all mayor cities in Spain.
Long before the attack in Madrid. People did decide to change the policy of their government, because they where fed up, that thanks to the decision of the former spanish president, an illegal war was initiated and many people lost their lives due to that decision.
The Iraq war (has nothing to do with terror realy)
The consequences are quite obvious:
1000 casualties on the american side since the beginning of the war…just think of it!! who knows, there could be a blender user within that number.

…just imagine, you look for a job and go to the army and end up in Iraq…and might end up getting hurt or killed by some crazed Iraqis(because their houses where bombed and/or their father, child, wife or whatever was killed)…bummer. gives me the creeps thinking about it.

civilians, women and children…how many died?-there are no official statistics. But war is about death and killing people. inocent people, colateral damage, are allways the highest number.

if somebody thinks that the world is a better and saver place now, just think of the bombings and death toll since the beginning of that illegal war. and the number of pissed off Arabs in the world right now.

do we fight terror by bombing houses where civilian live or do we breed potential terrorists by doing so?

my question is : would the 3/11 bombing have taken place without the spanish involvement in Iraq?

but back to Spain:

the president of Spain said, before he was elected, that this war was illegal, just as other European leaders like the french president and the german chancellor did, and said he would withdraw all troops within a short period of time.

The majority of the spaniards where against this war and decided to end their involvement by giving their vote to the socialist party.

But not only that, there also were domestic issues and its not at all only the illegal-Iraq-war topic.
Spain also supports the development of GNU software and does invest in research and development.
www.linex.org , is an example
they raised the expenses in education and cut down on defence…
healthcare is public in spain and everybody has access to doctors and hospitals…

________________________----

Did the attack influence in the outcome?. it did have an impact, but this was not the only reason. (there were domestic issues as well and local polls a couple of month later proofed that) but when terror is a part of the politics…and in spain it is a daily threat (in spain due to bask-separatists)…
… you give your vote to the ones that you think they protect you the best from this threat. on both sides of the med. and in the entire world. and in spain you dont want to add another threat(fanatic arabs in this case)

2

Hello! Why don’t we just make terrorism illegal. Then they’ll think twice before doing anything. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

3

That is the most rhetorical poll I’ve ever seen in this forum.

You need to understand that when you have religious zealots, there is no such thing as a “coalition of understanding.” Bush is a religious zealot, the terrorists are religious zealots, and there is going to be no kind of understanding between the two. That’s the kind of person that doesn’t know how to change his mind or think outside of a book (which is often not even read).

4

Anyone who wants to sit at a table with muslim extremists should not be surprised when he is suddenly kneeling blindfolded in front of some knife wielding arabs.

I don’t think the war against terror can be won - neither by diplomacy nor by violence.

5

Sure, it can. But not by force. The US is fighting Iraq while demanding that its oil tankers be filled on-time. If you want to really do something about it, make sure that the country cannot export a single barrel to anyone anywhere anytime. Make sure they cannot transfer a single dollar from one bank to another.

But… a total blockade has never been considered because the true objective of this operation is, and always has been, conquest.

No, I’m not a radical. I haven’t even seen F-911. %| I calls 'em as I sees 'em, and I read a lot. When what you see in front of you “doesn’t make sense,” yes, it does, but you’re just not looking at the right information yet. You are unlikely to find the information you seek from the media of the day. Since history repeats itself, history is usually the first place to turn for clues.

On this Internet you can spend hours reading detailed histories of how this region came to be, and what role Britain and the United States had in it (as well as other Allied countries at the time) following WW-1. This reading will prove to be very informative in putting today’s events in perspective. The old Ottoman Empire was carved-up during those days, before its potential oil wealth was understood, and now We Want It Back. This is the world’s last remaining great deposit of sweet crude oil. Awww, is that a sufficient justification for world war? :o Y-E-S.

We are in the Phony War stage of what will probably explode into World War III, and no, I am very level-headed and I am not kidding. Exactly the same thing happened prior to Chapters I and II of this very grim story. We have “outgrown” the days when wars were regional. As communication and trade now span the globe, so does war.

Another thing that history tells you is that, although “sweet talk” is always used to stall for time while armies are girdling themselves for war, it isn’t going to solve anything because it doesn’t address the real underlying issues. That issue is petroleum: the world is running out of it but they still have some. Which is not a terribly nice fate for them, actually. Iraq knows it’s toast, knows that it doesn’t have a million-man army, and knows that a million men are arrayed against it. Terrorism, and defiance, are low-cost strategies but they’ll turn out to be as effective as swatting a hornet’s nest.

This is not about religious zealotry at all. Religion has been a tool of the state since Emperor Constantine became a “Christian,” and before. For your first reading assignment, get a very good translation of The Art Of War. No one ever fought a war for principles: they always fought it for resources and justified it with principles. Religion is a handy tool for this, because if you say to a person having strong religious convictions what that man wants to hear, he will believe and follow you for a long time without thinking. This is human nature, and human nature can be exploited.

And, gentlemen ages 18-25, some of you … are toast. Cannon food. I’m sorry to say that.

6

without religion you will never have longstanding morals or order. Of course, people have taken the liberty of inventing a number of religions contradictory to each other which is kinda what started this whole ‘conflict’ thing.

Of course, if you arent OF a religion, you end up having to ride the fence on controversial issures like war and abortion and crap like that.

As the world progresses and gets less and less grounded in religion (perhaps I should have said ‘America’ instead of ‘world’) it gets more and more screwed up.

So as humans we say ‘well, we need more laws’ or ‘we need to make some more policys’ or ‘we need to be more tolerent.’

I have often thought what’s stopping me from living my ‘alternitive lifestyle’ of being a serial killer. ‘I was born this way! You need to be more tolerent of my messed up lifestyle!’

I will now apologize for my off-topic-ness.

7

:o what?! does Jihad says anything to you? Crusades? Inquisition? I don’t know… seems like religon - especially the big once brought this world more bad stuff than good. somthimes it seems all small and not important rulls of religons are those that important… and everybody forget the last 5 commandments, which are moral and universal.

8

Actually its more of halfway between A and B. And please, please no more of this crap. This is like saying the we should have let Hitler kill Jews and rampage across Europe because–SCREAM GASP!–it would have been–unpeacelike! The highest crime a country can EVER do is to-to-to scream deeefeeeend itself! We should’ve tried to form a “an alliance of civilisation for a better understanding, education and cultural interchange in peace.”

joeedh

9

:o what?! does Jihad says anything to you? Crusades? Inquisition? I don’t know… seems like religon - especially the big once brought this world more bad stuff than good. somthimes it seems all small and not important rulls of religons are those that important… and everybody forget the last 5 commandments, which are moral and universal.[/quote]

It is true that religion can help a person find order in our chaotic world. It’s only when they try to impose that order on others that they become a menace to society. That’s why I like my religion: We strongly believe in NOT having that kind of attitude. As I said in the Spain thread, we believe that what you do is your own freakin buisiness unless it directly involves us in some way.

Ehhh. . .I know that sounds like advertising. . .I just like my religion I think it’s cool, but I know not to advertise it unless someone wants to know. . .plus I’m always afraid people will think that we Mormans (well, at least we Californian Mormans, what I said is official church policy, but that doesn’t stop people in certain areas from having cultural biases) are stuck-up we-are-so-much-better-then-you and if-you-don’t-believe-as-we-do-you-are-a-gross-and-sick-sinner kind of people.

joeedh

10

Why would they follow it, it’s not like it would be able to be enforced. Take WW1 for instance they made war illegal but stupid Japan didn’t follow through with it.

11

Why would they follow it, it’s not like it would be able to be enforced. Take WW1 for instance they made war illegal but stupid Japan didn’t follow through with it.[/quote]
right…

I really like uneducated statements like this.

Martin

12

lol, I’m sure Osama is trembling in his boots. %| %| %|

joeedh

13

the question is not to sit down on the same table with fanatic extremists, but to make sure they sit alone at their table.

the religious extremists say the west is evil. the west should show that this is not the case. once people are coming, for example, in a student exchange to london, berlin,paris, new york, sydney…etc. they will see us with diferent eyes, and show religious extremists the finger.

but if you throw bombs on their homes and say : “its for your own good.”
you are doing a good job in recruiting propaganda for the extremists.

religious and political stubbornness leads to hate. we should prevent hate.

and war means:
just imagine yourself at home (remember those thunderstorms at night, when you were a child), sivering with fear…listening and feeling bomb-impacts coming closer and closer…

14

Why would they follow it, it’s not like it would be able to be enforced. Take WW1 for instance they made war illegal but stupid Japan didn’t follow through with it.[/quote]
right…

I really like uneducated statements like this.

Martin[/quote]

:slight_smile: You are a moderator. It is your job to set a good example. He’s not being an idiot. Maybe his historical facts are wrong (I have no idea) but that doesn’t warrent a comment like that.

:slight_smile: Have a good day.

joeedh