B3.2: Broken arches modeling

[pitibonom]

Hi all

I come here with one simple question:
Is there a method or tutorial or maybe tool for modeling arches ( just like they appear in medieval roman or gothic buildings ) ?

I gave a try to broken arches with geonodes.
My first attempt is not too bad:

I take an edge and cut it in 4 parts. The 2 points nearer to the center point must be the centers for circles making the arches.

Where i’m stopped is when my base mesh has multiple segments. I’d like to generate and arch on each segment but i don’t know how to handle all edges separately

I share the blend here. Maybe a better geonoder than i can improve and share it ?
test_voutes.blend (3.5 MB)

Thanks and happy blending !

[RickyBlender]

there are so many different model of arches in medieval time or before

which one are you trying to make ?

circular , elliptical or parabola type !

medieval arches type - Bing images

happy bl

[pitibonom]

Hi @RickyBlender

Most arches i need to make are the semicircular one and the three pointed, acute and depressed ones.

I use to design them from a proper geometry methot, but what i’m trying to achive is some kind of automation in generation from a base line with GN.

Happy blending

[RickyBlender]

not certain how this could be done with GEOM nodes

may be someone else can help on this
i know how to make these arches but not with GEOM nodes

and do you need to show stones around or only the general shape ?

happy bl

[pitibonom]

I only need the shapes.
By the way, i would only need the generated curves or edges…

My GN setup is a first ( shitty ) step… maybe some GN expert could make it better ?

Happy blending !

[joseph]

@SterlingRoth @Charles_Weaver @zeroskilz @sozap @AlphaChannel

[AlphaChannel (Dr Salty Lout)]

Erindale did a live of a cathedral with some excellent arches.

Procedural Cathedral - Geometry Nodes and Chill

[sozap]

Hello !

So I find a way to manage something but it’s a very different approach, you’ll tell me if that can work for you !

It’s probably possible to build it the way it’s originally build, I suppose based on the 4 points you made, but TBH trigonometry isn’t my strong point so I found a different way.

The blend :
test_voutes2.blend (3.7 MB)

A rectangle as input shape and the generated arches :

How it works is quite simple, we use a mesh to point set to edge to have one point per edge, right in the center of each edge.

But before that we capture a vector made of each edge’s points :

That way we know the length of each edge and their orientation, so it’s just a matter of instancing an arch shape :

How the arch shape is made is quite simple too :
It’s just an Arc curve that is symetrized :

But before doing the symetry, we need to do two things :
1/ make sure the top part is always aligned with the center (Y location = 0) ,
2/ and also that the bottom part is always at 0.5 in X location.

That way the arch once symetrised will always have a size of 1 ( -0.5 → 0.5 in X) so it’s easier to scale it along the the edges.

So how do we do that in the laziest possible way ? :

We take the bounding box of the curve plugged into a map range !

Last part is just about symetry, and merging the two curves :

And all that goes into a nodegroup for better control , and look at that you can even build medieval Mc Donald’s :

Hopes that helps !

[pitibonom]

Hi all and thanks for your answers !

@joseph : thanks for calling for interrest

@AlphaChannel : I once saw this video but for some reason, were unable to retrieve it
Thanks for linking it here ! Erindale is a GN master and is ‘caviar’ to listen to The only bad part is that his nodes often use his own nodegroups that i don’t have…

@sozap : Thanks a LOT for the time you took on this !
You generation method seems simpler than mine and i think i’ll keep it as is
It allows many parameters for changing broken arch… This is very interresting !
and i love the medieval mac-do idea

I’m now on thexturing the Trésau tower. A big piece of work, as i ( once again ) need to bake height textures and i decided to automate it through a script.

I keep this topic in my favorites ! Be sure i’ll be back here soon with more questions

Thanks again to all and happy blending !

[sozap]

Great ! BTW your Carcassone project is really cool and it’s a lesson of dedication to a project, I was into fantasy medieval stuff recently and I took a few image from you as reference, it’s great if you found that geo node setup useful !

Keep up the good work !

[pitibonom]

Hi @sozap

I’m glad you like Carcassonne 3D project and i’m honored you use it as a ref

If you need more pics of specific places in the city, just tell me I’ll be pleased to give you renders in the ways you expect. Also may i invite you to get my app on my website and install and run it so that you can screenshot whatever you want in various conditions ( day or night with nightlights, rain or sun, etc… ) and if you can show it to your relatives, it is always good

Just a lil note: this project is not really ‘fantasy’ ( though i’d have liked to make it much more ‘fantasy-looking’ as i love those things ) but it is an as close as possible clone of the real nowadays medieval city

Thanks again !
I’m currently working on a generic scripted height-bake for Carcassonne, but i can’t wait trying your GN for arches as it is really amazing !!!

Happy blending !

[RickyBlender]

@sozap
the arc node curve
this is making a circular arc

but there are many other kind of arc
like parabola ogive ect…
is there a way to make these other type of curve too ?

thanks
happy bl

[sozap]

Awesome and thanks a lot for the proposal !
That should be fine, the topic you made is already filled with interesting informations and details and it’s super cool to read. I’ve tried quickly the application and it’s super cool !

@pitibonom

Just a lil note: this project is not really ‘fantasy’ ( though i’d have liked to make it much more ‘fantasy-looking’ as i love those things ) but it is an as close as possible clone of the real nowadays medieval city

Yes I totally get that, it’s amazing ! I’m taking inspiration from the real world but what I’m ending up with doesn’t make sense from an historical POV for many reason and I’m not even sure how much of my different sources of inspirations remains in the end.

It will be simpler to talk about it once I’m confident enough with it to start sharing some images.
And I’ll make sure to credit the different resources I used during the project ! Hopefully we’ll meet there sooner than later

[sozap]

Hello !

You should be able to do these kind of shapes with the setup I made :

At least the top part, since an extrusion would be needed to make the straight lines at the basis.

For other kind of shape, can you share some reference for them ?

At least it shouldn’t be too difficult to keep the core principle and improve the arch generator to handle more use cases, I’m not sure I’ll look into that but I can give some pointers about what I would have tried !

let see where this lead us

[RickyBlender]

here are some arches type

type of medieval arches - Bing

type of medieval arches - Bing

type of medieval arches - Bing

just wondering about Geom nodes here!

i can do it in python addon so not really a problem

and there are other arches type from India - Egypt ect…

thanks
happy bl

[sozap]

Interesting !

I think by adding a few parameters it’s possible to have a generator that would handle Round, Pointed, Tudor, HoreseHoe , Ogee, Lancet, Parabolic, Segmental, Elliptical…

But it would probably mean to replace the arc node with a custom setup.
Most of the shapes can be done with a bezier curve that is symetrised, so it’s just a matter of creating good controls for the handles of that curve.
The challenge is half technical and half UI/UX stuff to simplify the parameters and yet allowing for all these different shapes.

For the shouldered and *Foil, It should be possible too but probably another method is needed.

You can probably recreate what you do in python right in GN, or use other possibilities GN offers.
GN tends to make things easier but since there isn’t loops yet some part are still a bit more involved than they should be.

It might be simpler to make one group for each of these types rather than looking for a setup to rules them all.

If someone is interested in recreating some of them I can give some direction but since it requires a bit of time I won’t do it just for the sake of the demonstration !

[pitibonom]

Please, forget about all those variations as IMHO things must start very simply

There are 2 basic arches to take care of.
round arch, called in french Roman or ‘plein cintre’
Broken arch called in french Gothique or ‘brisé’. This later one offers multiple variations.

Rules are simple but language ( as english culture took the words but was not the source ) adds confusion on all those architecture concepts.
No shame on this guyz this is nothing but architecture history
Even french language introduces confusion. If we were purists, we’d all talk Latin

I’ll be back with some more info and real terms ( forgotten from the internet ) and i’m sorry to say we’ll have to use some french, italian or even latin words

Happy blending !

[sozap]

Lol cool ! I think the setup I made can handle round and broken arch, but it depends on which variations of the broken arch of course !

But people have different needs and it can be interesting to look into other shapes as well. At least if someone want to give it a shot , this one can be a nice exercise for people in need of quick and intense nodal sensations :

But if I understand you correctly it’s still a broken / Gothic arch, just a particular variation of it ?

Ok let’s use some french and italian words and even chime in some nonsense term to see who is really following, like the tour Eiffel arch, mostly used pro-bono in the pizza-pasta style of castle from the 15rh century…

[RSEhlers]

@sozap

tour Eiffel arch, mostly used pro-bono

shouldn’t that be Tour de Eiffel Cambre, primarily used Proto-Bonissimo ( or Molto bene if you prefer)?

and on that note…Yes, I want one… that would really be handy for Trefoil, Multifoil, and Cinquefoil…as I really don’t want to hand model them

[RickyBlender]

not certain this was the goal for this Geom Curve node
i mean most custom shape can be done in pyhon scripting

but who knows may be there is a way to make other type of arches !
would be interesting if the Geom nodes set up don’t get too complicated

just one note
i made my own python script and found something over 50 different type of arches
so i doubt it can be done in Geom nodes

and for architecture terms over the centuries
forget about it
you got arches from old Egypt to Greek Roman medieval - renaissance period

this thread will end up with 200 post LOL

happy bl