Hey all, i decided to give another go at head modeling.
I followed a tutorial from PolyFace. (Part1, and Part2, if anyone is interested, high res references included). The topology from the tutorial didnt quite suit me so i made some changes in the end, and lots of tweaking…
I also referenced blendercookie mesh topology collection, realistic human face modeling, and some other sources.
Anyway here is my result, any experts on organics, how is my topology looking, proportions, etc. Any improvements i could make? I want to get the modeling done so i can start on the texturing part hopefully.
I like the faceloops that go down the front of the neck. It allowed you to add the muscle detail. The area near the five point star under the eye needs to be smoothed out maybe? The transition from the nostril to the eyebrow looks weird. All in all, way better then my stuff.
I smoothed some stuff out using the sculpt tools, but i cant get the shape as it appears in the reference. Can anyone provide a general direction i should go in to get my model looking like the reference? I see that i have the shape wrong but i cant get my head around what needs to be changed.
also here is a close up of the eye, i added the canthus? (i believe its called)
I think you are pretty close and doing well.
We are so used to seeing faces that small irregularities can make things still feel off.
The tweaks I see are:
Her jaw is more rounded and narrower near the neck.
Her mouth is a little smaller and narrower.
Her forehead is a little more rounded and full.
The top of her nose and her blow ridge is shallower and smoother.
Guys have sharp, pronounced brow ridges where a woman’s is softer and smoother.
Lastly, the muscles that run from the cheeks to the bridge of the nose need to flow up onto the nose more. It should not be so sharp a change if you look at her nose.
Thanks for the reply tfrank, ill try to work on those, i do have trouble understanding what you mean.
not sure what you mean by roundness in the jaw, though i see that its thicker than the reference now.
the mouth seems to line up with the front reference image, but i guess i cant rust them to be exact now can i, ill scale it down a notch.
not sure what you mean by “more full” on the forehead.
i see the nose problem now, thanks.
ill start to tweak now :), but keep the comments coming guys, i am sure there more stuff that is wrong in this model.
I think you might get a better result on the eyebrow if you have the faceloops that go down the center of the nose connect to a faceloop going around the eye and under the jaw. I think it will blend nicer if it’s at the ridge of the brow.
Sorry I was not very clear. I was sneaking in a little fun at work during a break so I could not spend much time.
First, I think you are doing very good. These are just what I think I see. Your opinion is what matters.
I overlaid the perspective and reference in Photoshop to help show what I mean. I noticed that I got the jaw critique off a bit. The EDGE is actually very good. I think it is the way it sinks in below her cheek bones that threw me.
The brow ridge in your perspective view protrudes in the areas I pointed to. In the center it almost looks like a slight vertical bump forward. The reference is flatter and smoother in this area.
Anyway, here is the overlay. I hope it is a little clearer.
alright so i made the modifications.
Here is a open gl render, 35mm clay render, and 70mm clay render.
I think with your suggestions tfrant, she looks more feminine now esp in the 35mm clay render(the one with the weird artifact).
However i still feel the shape is off, any ideas?
I scaled down the lips, made an small “indent” were the green line on the jaw/cheek is. shallowed the nose/cheek transition, pulled back the top of the nose(middle of the two eyes), and rounded the head, pulled the yeas lightly down, oh and fiddled around with the neck a bit.
not exactly sure what the cage method is, so i used the sculpt smooth tool along with the proportional editing tool in edit mode.
You’re far, far ahead of me in this department, so I really have no constructive critique to offer you. But I did nick that beautiful colour coded loop map. That was awesome, and I will keep that as reference.
This is not a comparison to the reference but just a general opinion.
The jaw seems “strong” to me.
If I were trying to make her more feminine I would raise the back corner of the jaw where it turns towards the ear.
I would consider taking those same corners and pull them a little closer together under the head.
Here is an example of a more feminine jaw with a narrow chin.
Not every woman has this jaw but this shape is stereotypical of a feminine jaw and chin.
Hope this helps.
To help more, I think we would need to see some other views (side, front, etc) to get a better understanding of the model’s shape.
Also the eyes are sloped inward and appear more asian in apperance…if you going for caucasian such as your reference images are they should be more level. Also in my opinion they are a bit small. Your loops look great and the overall model is good:) Just a few adjustments maybe as Modron suggested he is talking about a lattice modifier you can google some youtube vids to see how it works…much easier than me trying to explain with text hehe:)
@tfrank,
“I would consider taking those same corners and pull them a little closer together under the head.”
so you are saying i should take the corner and move it up and into the head or pull them to the back of the head? i guess make it less “square”?
oh and yeah, ill post some more views, which kind would be best to look at; clay renders, solid/ edit-mode openGL pictures? perspective i assume since ortho is not realistic? ill put up front, side, what else would be helpfull?
@DerekG1080,
“Also the eyes are sloped inward and appear more asian in appearance” interesting i didn’t see that, thanks. ill scale them up and rotate them slightly.
right i used the lattice modifier with tires before, also a fork along time ago trying to follow a tut back in the day. I dont see how it can be usefull in a complex model though, i feel that i can get much better refinement using the sculpt tools, or proportional editing.
Ok so i did some more tweaking… looks better i think.
and here is a front and side perspective open gl renders.
I am still tweaking the mesh, but i am thinking forward:
What is the best way to add the eyebrows? particles i guess?
does anyone have any good tutorials on creating realistic eyebrows/hair?
I want to have at least a proxy hair/brows so i can better see how the model is coming out.
also should i worry about any sculpting? i am sure it would be necessary if it was an old man or something, to get all the wrinkles in, but seeing as this is a young female, what would i focus on sculpting if its is even needed?
Any texture painting tutorials would help too, even though i have some bookmarked…
The “corner” could move UP towards the ear and maybe a little IN towards the nose.
Another thing that may give you some good reference is to look up GOLDEN RATIO in google images. The golden ratio is a proportional mask that we perceive as beauty. It can guide you to get proportions right.
With the front view to look at, I think the eyeball and socket relationship are off. Look at where the iris is positioned both vertically and horizontally in the eyelid. The iris usually sits on the lower lid and the pupil is nearly touching the upper lid.
Of course no face is perfect and we all have oddities that make us unique so you don’t need her to be perfect as much as make her look like the face you envision in your head.
Well i did some more tweaks, i think this is the best i can do. Started on the hair. the eyelashes are actual mesh objects the eyebrows and hair are particle hair.
So alot of time spent on the hair…i guess it is slightly better then the last render…(sarcasm), but hey what do you guys think?
i still have a few tweaks to make but i am happy how its coming out so far…also thickened up the eyebrows, the right side needs more work…
One of the tweaks you have to make is mouth region. By contrast your model has a more distended mandible area. In order to match up the reference photo, the whole mouth area needs recessed more underneath the nose.
Its a scary adjustment, I know, but you can do it fairly easily using an adjustment with the proportional falloff editing tool. It’s meant for that kind of plastic surgery.
The upper lip is too large in relation to the reference. The bottom lip has good fullness but doesn’t taper upwards towards the corner of the mouth early enough.
Raise the model’s cheekbones. The cheekbone high point on the model mesh is in line with it’s nose tip. However, in the reference photo the high point of the cheek is slightly below mid bridge of the girl’s nose.
When the mouth/mandible area is recessed, it should also help define a more hollow cheekline from bone to jaw.
The eyebrows on the model mesh need to come down nearly half the given distance towards the upper
lid.
Regarding the model’s eyes, they are too far apart. Not greatly, but they need to be brought closer towards the nose bridge. For reference use the corner of the mouth and draw a line upwards. On the reference pic, notice the corner of the mouth is under the inner edge of the cornea. On the model, however, the corner of the mouth is not quite under even the inner tear duct.
The eyebrows and lashes came out surprisingly well. Great work.
Thanks FXR!
I moved the eyes closer to the nose, moved the cheeks up, and fiddles around with the mouth. I wasnt sure what exactly you said was wrong with it besides the top lip being too thick(slightly thinner now). i moved the mouth slightly back too. oh and i moved the eyebrows down.
Added hair to the back (had some empty spots b4), render showed a rogue hair strand, ill fix it in the next update… (i have 5 different hair vertex groups on the head for the hair: 2 for the top left, 2 for the top right, and 1 for the back and lower sides)
hmm cant seem to remove the rogue hair, doesnt even show up in the view-port, and i hit Alt-H on every particle system.
Eyebrows - still too high up forehead. Need to come down a little more and be reduced in length. The eyebrow on the reference photo ends at the outside corner of the eye. As well, the eyebrows needs shrunk in scale.
Eyes - Shape is good. Increase the size of the cornea. The upper lid as it crosses the region of the cornea towards the bridge of the nose needs raised a touch. This will open the eye more.
Jaw - While the point of jaw on the model looks good, the area immediately surrounding it to the left and right, in the cheeks, is too full on the model. The face still needs to come down to a more slim taper towards the point of the jaw. Reduce the volume of area below the mouth line by about 30%. Again, the proportional editing tool is invaluable for the plastic surgery.
Lips - The top lip is on target as is the middle of the bottom lip, just below the nose. That region has appropriate width and thickness. But as the bottom lip extends left and right towards the corners of the mouth it remains too thick until reaching the corner. The bottom lip needs to angle uptowards the corner of the mouth more sharply, once it comes in line with the nostril. The nostril is your reference point to start thinning of the bottom lip.
Nose - Nose tip needs elongated … slightly down and out. Again, slightly. The tip needs to be little fuller, rounded a touch. Also, the nostrils should be less pinched. Inflate the nostrils a bit outwards towards the ears.
