General AI Discussion

Sometimes the work is a reward in itself. When I first started learning Blender (and drawing later on) I did it because it was fun. When I started learning programming when I was a kid that was also because it was fun.

The utopian vision of AI is that we will not need to work, but we will do what we want. For some people it will change nothing really, for some it will change a lot (some will just focus on their families/travel/friends/hedonism). I highly recommend Ian Banks Culture series for one description of how it might work (and those books are awesome).

Ofc, there are also dystopian vision of how it will look (and on those most movies were focused on so far).

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Remember Blade Runner?
Would be funny if human-made stuff will get way too expensive for practically anyone to afford. Like that snake or even the owl at Tyrell.
Yes I’m saying that it’s funny if AI started killing humans as well. “Go out with nature, you filthy humans!”
I mean to them, we’re just unorganized algorithms made sometimes against efficiency. We sometimes take time to think about other humans, and that is really against efficiency in terms of numbers. And numbers can tell practically anything if you have a huge amount of data corresponding to human actions as a whole. Our brains already use electricity as a means to send signals and maybe even images?
All we are are a bunch of switches activated and deactivated upon putting our current situation against our own experiences. What do we do when we haven’t had any prior experience? We just try to observe, or get info from other humans. Enter the hive mind of humans. We are interconnected with communication, a huge mind heading towards complete domination of the galaxy. There has been little to no consideration for other species, and we won’t stop. Of course we try to save some species for our children to play with, but overall, our direction is to take over everything.
We now gave birth to AI as our strong companion which will open up a whole new variety of options. But as with anything that has power (or value in this case) to keep surviving, for example AI is now taking jobs of humans. Aren’t we so different from this savagery that we’ve created!? The strongest will prevail.
It’s a cycle, it always has been, with species going extinct and giving room for others to take over. AI is still in that boundary. Maybe there are aliens that can outrun our AIs, who knows? Then our child will go extinct and now we’re nothing but relics of a failed species.
I hate AI, because it’s cheap, and I know how happy a human can be when we achieve something after going through so much hardship. AI takes that away. It takes the very actions in life I call purpose.
But then again I hate humans as well for the same reason. If we really want to have no part with AI, might as well rejoin our animal friends. Who knows, the lion king might keep us from being thrown underneath their pyramid. At least they know how to control their numbers.
To me it looks like a matter of life’s purpose vs efficiency towards domination. But we never gave anything else a chance. To me it seems like it’s just a matter of time. Goodbye cruel world? Yeah right.
Are we so different? In the future humans just might be programmable into machines, if put through the same conditions, experiences, etc.
I still hate AI though. Yes, I’m one of the annoying humans your honor.
Sorry for the long text, it just came to mind and I thought why not.

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Quite wrong.

Your personal motivation is not universal, and pitying anyone who is different from you is arrogant.

I have most of my life experienced good jobs because I am smart, well-educated, and I like to work. I’ve found much of that work rewarding. But I also realize that I’ve been very lucky – lucky to have been born into a wealthy Western nation with free education, lucky to have been born white, lucky to have been smart enough to escape my miserable family conditions. Many, if not most people, do not have my background and experiences; they’ve not got the the genetics, the education, the opportunities.

But all that good work-for-hire is not where my reward centre is located . Whenever I could afford it I took jobs related to social causes I believe in, even if they paid little, or even nothing at all. Nor is it material possessions, public applause, the promise of posterity, or social status. I don’t get my best rewards from external sources. Doing something well, doing it better, smarter, more efficiently (measured against my own efforts), paying it forward, making the world a slightly better place, those are the rewards that motivate me. That was @Lumpengnom’s point – motivation to work isn’t universal.

Life is so much better for me without being tied to a specific job for money. I am more productive and more creative when I am not obligated to do something in a specific way because of all the constraints that any job, even a fulfilling one brings with it, because the bottom line in work-for-hire is always money. Even for non-profits. And I don’t (inherently) care about money. I reject it as a measure of my own or anyone’s worth.

If you offered me free money without strings I’d take it. But I won’t stop working on one thing or another until I am dead, I will never just sit on the couch eating bon-bons and playing video games all day if I am able to do anything else; I don’t need to be forced into that or artificially motivated by money or status. This is how I am; I like making things, doing things, exploring things, learning new things, accomplishing things.

Machines can do specific things humans can do better. Some percentage of humans can do anything I can do better. I don’t care. Things I do for myself are meaningful, things I do for and with people I care about are meaningful. That’s pretty much future-proof. If any job I can do goes away, if my profession is replaced by AI, my self-worth doesn’t fall with it, because that doesn’t define me.

AI doesn’t scare me personally; I think it’s pretty exciting, it’ll allow me to do things which I can’t now do, and it will never replace me as a person in the eyes of the people who matter to me. It scares me in the greater scheme of things because I worry how humanity at large will screw this up; we’re not mature enough as a species to deal well with the inevitable social upheaval. But maybe climate change will get us first, or nuclear war; no matter how technologically inventive we are, we are also capable of great feats of supreme idiocy.

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Which likely remains a long way off. Take the image generators for instance, at the end of the day it is still an image splicer, a very sophisticated one that can grab from thousands of images in a rule-based fashion, but there is no evidence yet that it is genuinely creating original content that is completely unlike anything within its database.

AI of all types also remains outright terrible at discerning context and on how to act when what it sees deviates even a little from the training data (which is why the best AI still acts on guiding passes and other data created by other algorithms). It was easy enough for instance to create an autonomous vehicle that can move by itself, but it is proving to be difficult in actually making them work in a highly dynamic environment with things like inattentive pedestrians and inclement weather.


There is also another thing and that is society in general appearing to a lot of trouble these days in keeping the definition of words consistent (that is, without engaging in the rampant obfuscation and expansion of their definitions which is slowly turning the English language into an unintelligible mess). Typing a sentence does not make you an artist in the same way you can’t refer to food products not from an animal as milk and meat, and in the same way a guy twitching his fingers playing Star Craft cannot be referred to as an athlete (to note three less hot-button examples).

It’s got to be a hidden geas that when somebody makes grand proclamations about other people’s language their own usually leaves something to be desired.

Nothing new about lack of long-term consistency. Language is a living thing and constantly changes. Go far enough back and we can’t even understand our ancestors anymore. Vocabulary drift bugs me sometimes, but fighting it is quixotic, and admittedly a little inconsistent – we only have rich, vibrant languages with huge vocabularies because they are so changeable. Obfuscation bothers me more – at least I can make fun of a development being called “Whispering Pines” after the trees they cut down to build the ugly thing, but there isn’t much joy in a “Clean Air Act” that’s less concerned with clean air instead of profit for polluters. But that’s not new either.

The English language is no more of an “unintelligible mess” now than it was 50+ years ago when I first encountered it – people understand their current language just fine. It’s improved with some new words, with more fine-grained definitions for some older ones, plenty of jargon confuses me as much as it did then (but it also delights me because it can be so inventive), and naturally the youth of today is doing unspeakable things to it – something we were accused of in our day as well.

It’s always been a fallible means of communication, but it’s the best we have; I don’t expect anything better to come along in my lifetime, if ever.

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Round 2… it’s starting to really make me laugh… :rofl:

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The hands with too many fingers flipping off the camera are my favorite part of all this. Can’t wait to see what people come up with for round 3

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AI can’t flip burgers…yet.

I can only see one positive with AI art. It takes less energy to create stuff. We will save the power grids from artists that are running their computer 8 hours a day trying to model a shoe.

Sandboxing the general AI should be a law. It may not leave the confined space of the server and it may not interact with the human infrastructure in any way.

Are you sure about that?

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Yea, change in physical world don’t happen as fast as in digital.

Diffusion models are not splicing images, and are not working in anything resembling rule-based approaches to AI.

I’ve seen some incredible images made by those generators, many of which I checked with reverse image google search. For many of them reverse image google search didn’t return anything similar. Sure, that doesn’t mean that it’s original. But how would you propose an experiment to conclusively tell that it can produce original images?

There is a lot of progress in that space too, many deployments in some major cities in past two years for example.

And also, it wasn’t easy enough. It looks like all the jazz was happening in the last few years, but the research was going on for decades. I remember seeing a video from 1980’ with an autonomous car riding on some parking lots and people were claiming it’s a few years to full self driving cars :sweat_smile:

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Forget about image generators in time they will find the way to teach AI how to paint fingers and legs it’s not big deal. And even if artists will manage to ban AI images how you will stop AI invading 3d digital art? You can’t ban 3d generated art and you won’t be able even tell if art was generated by AI or made by hand. Even today AI is able to generate 3d textured meshes - characters, props, furniture, vehicles. It can create stunning animations (most tedious part of 3d art). No more wasting days and months for refing your clumpsy animations… just few clicks and you character will perform action you have in mind.
It’s amazing and a bit sad to realize that soon so many animators could lost their job. Can you, guys, imagine where it’ll goes few years later with such crazy progression?

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Is there a technique out there yet creating models with descent (poly saving) topology?

Surely such a world will lead to a lot of sameness in the art space. Even if you try to copy someone elses art work or are inspired by them you end up adding a bit of your own spin to it and that gives variation. With less people outputting artwork and the A.I. self cannibalizing by learning off, of its own previous work I can see less variation in artwork happening.

a few years back I watched a video on youtube about why a lot of recent movies don’t have memorable songs/music. The issue was when storyboarding (i think that is what the process is called) they would take music from another film, that was supposed to convey the right emotion for the scene and the director would end up asking for the same song but slightly different to avoid copyright.

Is this the future of art? Take the same prompts as someone else but tweak it a little, so it looks slightly different.

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I am actively following all sorts of research in that direction and that’s why I am quite confident to say: NO :slight_smile:

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Anyone who is quite confident about anything AI-related right now- when we’re only seeing the beginning of a new future- is delusional. That’s not an insult, I mean that word very literally; it’s absolutely impossible to predict what the world is going to look like in ten years, especially with technology this powerful in its infancy. To say that you have absolute confidence about the direction this all goes is, ultimately, a false judgement about external reality- the definition of delusional

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It just occured to me. A machine learning retopology tool and UV unwrapping tool, would be incredibly useful. Now if only I had the skill to make such a tool :thinking:

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I wish i could find the right timestamp but I recently listened to the Lex Fridman podcast with Demis Hassabis (Co-founder and CEO of Deepmind, a company that specialises in A.I. their famous work being AlphaGo and AlphaZero).

They got onto the topic of the future of A.I. and he said something along the lines of, people think the future of technology is better than what we have now, but often it is something new, that is yet to be invented.

The example he gave was in back to the future when they come to the future, in the house they have 3 fax machines, because at the time the film is made the fax machines was this new tech and they thought in the future people would have more of them.
They also discuss other old films and shows that tried to depict the future and the technology they thought would be in our future.

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I am glad to see that there is some defense against mixing AI generated art and human art.

However … I too would love some AI help on tasks, which are not artistic and require much efforts. The process from gathering ideas/references to the final thing takes many steps.
AI could help …

  • gathering references

    • some yearrs ago I lost months of lifetime to find side view of wolf back teeth, until I was aware of searching for skulls. For a reference you also want many good quality views from any direction, not only those favourite views which swarm the Internet.
  • creating a base mesh (includes UV Unwrapping). It also includes some research on topology. And some decisions, like placing some non-quads to keep detail where it belongs. I dont want everything to have excessive topology, just to have enough loops to shape hands or eyelids.

  • Rigging (Skinning). In past, Skinning were among the very frustrating steps. It happened, that I thought I finished it. After I noticed that I must have accidently painted on distant parts. So I end up with some curious things, like lifting head off when little finger gets a stretch.

There is also much other things. Anything relating to blending cam footage with rendered video clips. Got millions for a motion capture studio and a greenscreen studio setup? I count on AI to democratize it, hoping that AI could lower entry level of those and democratize it.

For a single person, one could easily spend a half year for a small video clip. This is where I would love AI helping, lowering budgets or help with technical problems.

(Still, I believe it is important to cultivate human art, to avoid the AI-Bypass and take responsibility as an artist.)

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I agree- I think AI has the potential to make tasks like skinning, UV unwrapping, rigging, retopologizing, and so forth so much easier and better than they are now. Cascadeur, for example, uses AI to add physics to animation- the recent demos are absolutely mind-blowing, I’ve downloaded it and I think it will be a huge boon in the animation pipeline. Things like that- where AI isn’t directly stealing from artists- I’m all for.

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Oh dear, look what the AI spit out…