Well both of my comments so far have been flat out ignored, but I’ll give it one last go I suppose.
No, the proportions are still off. As I’ve explained above, the underlying issue is in the basic skeletal and muscular forms, which is throwing the proportions off. You get those correct, and the proportions will look correct, even if you exaggerate them. I might call it malnourished and you might call it the ideal body type, but it’ll look correct all the same.
Without these important toned and/or bony (depending on what you’re going for) landmarks, the forms appear too soft for a girl this skinny. And if a girl this skinny has soft, undefined features, the eye compensates by misinterpreting the proportions.
TL;DR: You either need more (and proper) muscle tone and/or bony bits, or you need to feed that poor girl a cheeseburger.
@horusscope
The golden ratio may look strange to you, but it looks good to me.
This was Arnold when he won “Mr. Universe” in 1970 and I don’t think it was for no reason.
Out of all the contestants people said he looked the “best formed”.
@cgCody
I haven’t ignored you. I admit my model needs work. Don’t get me wrong, but is it really that far off to be so harshly criticized as being terrible? It will get better I assure you. Thanks for the tips.
edit: The problem with modeling muscles is the fact that certain muscles and bones become more “pronounced” depending on the posture of the body. I need to model the body in a rested pose of some sort. The muscles in the neck will show up more when looking upward. The most optimum way to get “realism” would be to model the skeleton and model each muscle and attach each muscle to each bone and make drivers that control shape keys for each muscle contraction and expansion. Then put a soft body skin on top of it all with muscle, bone and ligament collision. I don’t have that much time on my hands by the way because this is just a hobby for me. I am 100% self taught and never went to school for any of this. I work 5 days a week at a hardware store and this is a hobby. If I was ever lucky enough to get paid for this kind of work, I would have the time to do the detail. I am lucky if I have an hour per day to work on this.
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s terrible, dude. It’s a good start.
I feel that you’re just giving a lot of pushback to the criticisms, so the folks in this discussion are having to apply more emphasis to their point.
The stomach is off as well as the rib cage is a little too pronounced.
I will do shape keys for the muscles but I need a starting position.
For example if the model leans forward a bit, the rib cage edges should show up less.
If she leans back it should stick out more. That’s just the rib cage. There are so many bones.
The body is really really complicated and even masters don’t fully understand it. I am not making excuses, I am just saying I need encouragement. Something has to be good… Telling someone that their work is only bad isn’t encouraging. Anyways, thanks for the positive feedback. It is a good start I think.
Seems you have a serious obscession with that hazardous gold ratio transposition on each picture you can see. Gold ratio , the new astrology ? You make assuptions all the way around, you take a picture you like : a starving woman or a muscled guy, then you play posing some kinda graphic supposedly representing that gold ratio , to justify posteriorly that the model was magicaly fitted in the first place. This is like astrology, turn all the things around to prove an assumption made in the first place…
For exemple, you take a pentagon, play with the size and its postion in a way it covers the best Arnold’s chest. If you would have took a wimp, you would have took a narrow rectangle, if you would have took an obese woman, you would have ajust a trapeze
The fact is : the human body growth is just like the realisation of huge number of micro facts happening during the child growth ruled by some conditional probabilities gravitating around a mean. An harmonious body will grow without going far from that mean. Your golden ratio is NOT written in the genetics of a perfect body, it’s just that the golden ratio can appears very APPROXIMATELY when it comes that lower members are smaller than upper members : 1 - 1,61
There you go, brother! That’s the right attitude. You just needed to take a step back. I think you’re ready to start bringing your model to the next level.
Though I don’t think you necessarily need to go as far as rigging up an actual muscular system, unless you’re secretly working on the next Avatar movie. Just getting some of these forms in there and using shapekeys to drive the tightening/relaxing of them will get the job done.
By the way, a good trick when working on the landmarks is to greatly exaggerate them, and then trim them back. This was something I learned in life drawing class back in college when I was having trouble, but it still applies here. The idea is that in the attempt to subtly suggest forms, you can end up under compensating and noodle-fying everything. By boldly over compensating, you start to appreciate the more subtle aspects of the shapes; where the bulk is coming from and needed, how and where muscles meet bone to create ridges and valleys. Blocking these things in will inform you on how much you can realistically tone them back down.
@blenderaptor
To each his own I guess. I won’t argue with you but I just have to say astrology is not even a comparison to what I am doing. I am measuring and comparing parts of the body with lines. Astrology measures and compares people with zodiac creatures that were drawn from a set of stars that aren’t even close to their shape that were imagined in the sky and don’t really have any connection to reality. I am just doing basic “length” measurements with a singular proportion that DOES show up in the human body everywhere. The way your nervous system branches and is structured to the way your lungs are structured and even to the way your DNA Helix is structured. The reason the human body and nature tend to move toward this proportion is because it is the most efficient structure in anything that has growth members branching off such as arteries to blood vessels or arms to fingers.
@blenderaptor
For exemple, you take a pentagon, play with the size and its postion in a way it covers the best Arnold’s chest. If you would have took a wimp, you would have took a narrow rectangle, if you would have took an obese woman, you would have ajust a trapeze
No, I took a pentagon because it measures the golden ratio by its own geometry without need of any other geometric shapes to show its relation. Squares do not display that proportion by themselves. I would only use pentagonal geometry because triangles and squares are inside them. All I am saying is the golden ratio is proportionally pleasing to me at least. Are you saying that wimps and obese people are normal and hence should be more pleasing than other proportions?
@cgCody You are right. A good artist pays attention to the subtle details. I did adjust the waist quite a bit from the original and the stationary T-pose muscles do need work.
This is the same golden ratio measurement geometry from my model.
They aren’t exact but are really close.
As you can see, it is realistic proportions that look good… At least to me…
The woman is a model named Anna S. that is very beautifully proportioned not just to me,
but to many people around the world. The head is off because her neck is
outstretched to the side a bit because she is walking with her hands in her hair.
These are the comments that turned me to defensive mode:
@tyrant_monkey
The proportions here are really off here, the are just all over the place. This golden ratio stuff is bunk and it is causing you more problems than helping you but I have a feeling that you brought into this nonsense so much that you won’t step back from it.
@sourvinos:
and moreover, even japanese women have to breath someway… @blenderaptor:
you mean she looks too skinny ? Like ,she’s ready to die ? @sourvinos:
something of sort… I mean that with lungs of such dimensions, I would be surprised if she could survive. @blenderaptor:
maybe she’s an old woman, old people can survive very long if they have skinny body. @blenderaptor:
mmh, i pretty sure that if you start to remove the 65%of water of our body you can expect some close result.
@yakuzakazuya
Maybe what he meant was japanes anime models.
Just kidding
At least yakuzakazuya let me know he was kidding.
I am on the same page as yakuzakazuya. He said:
“Unfortunately where I come from sarcasm is a rare commodity, hence my inability to detect it!”
You were being sarcastic? I showed you a real person with close to the same ratios as my model and she looks fine and able to breath…
I wasn’t kidding or being sarcastic about the average American body fat%. It is true. Go to Wal Mart and most of the pants, clothes and belts are quite large. I am sorry but someone has to say it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWN13pKVp9s
Go ahead…poke me a little more and what it will cause is me to either work harder and blow you away or quit because nothing can ever be perfect.
Well, personally I liked your original body works more. I’m sorry we can’t agree about the golden ratio thing, but I think you were on a good track and that it took you off that path for the worse. I was going to post a comparison just now, in fact, but I notice you took the old ones down. That’s a shame. I hope you repost them or put them back.
You are receiving encouragements, people are telling you to keep working on it, because it can be improved, instead of telling you “it sucks, throw it away”, or watching silently waiting for you to fail, instead of doing something to help.
Masters are master because they took their time studying the subject, as everyone is saying, that Golden Ratio stuff won’t help you if the body proportions are wrong, as you can adjust it at your will, and everything will fit regardless of what is it.
The first thing you’ll notice comparing Anna AJ (the model), to yours, are the legs, in particular the Vastus Lateralis, Tensor Fascia Latae, Vastus Medialis and Adductor Longus muscles, also pay attention to the Iliac Crest, that is slightly larger.
They are PRO, but you can look at this quality at something you want to achieve. If you keep running in circles trying to mathematically create a human, you’ll never get the correct look, use anatomy knowledge and your eyes to judge. Some tools may help you, but don’t rely too much on them:
Use this stuff cautiously, generally it’s overlaid only to correct the already made mesh (if needed) and not to model the face based on it, or better, not use it at all:
Are “supermodels” “realistic”, though? I mean, that women (and most other models) has had cosmetic surgery done. She clearly has implants, and that picture is DEFINITELY Photoshopped. That thigh gap is quite literally physically impossible. There is not one woman alive with a gap that wide that isn’t malnourished or Photoshopped- it’s not about beauty, it’s about the distribution of fat on the body. If the female body has any fat, it will go there- and for her breasts to be the size they are, she clearly has body fat. I’m not saying thigh gaps don’t exist, but gaps of that magnitude do not.
@SonicBlue
I agree. The legs are a bit thin. I will fatten them up.
One thing I don’t agree on though is where you said: “If you keep running in circles trying to mathematically create a human, you’ll never get the correct look, use anatomy knowledge and your eyes to judge.”
The reason I don’t agree is because from my perspective, everything can be defined by math and when I use my eyes to “eyeball” something I am still using my brain to “measure” the object and math is the epitome of measurement.
Thanks for the reference links though. I will take a look.
Read the article (the preview at least, since you have to pay to read the full one ) about the Marquardt mask, and why it doesn’t work, along with the other “ratios”, that are only general guidelines.
@SonicBlue
I read it. It is an article written by a man with an opinion and there is some truth to it. But you people act as if I am obsessed with the golden ratio for no legitimate reason. Think about it this way: Was there a god that was obsessed with atoms and spheres and that’s why everything is formed and made with them? There is a reason things are the way they are and it may not be completely clear why.
srry @Blender10der I’m not trying to pick on you. if you think I’m not helping in any way just tell me and I’ll stop commenting. but I think if we try sculpting your ideal body we might learn something here.
Sooooo…
hey @yakuzakazuya this model has interesting proportions care to sculpt it?
here are the information needed for the model:
let me know if you are up for it.
) about the Marquardt mask, and why it doesn’t work, along with the other “ratios”, that are only general guidelines.