Help needed with character’s head topology

Hungry_Moogle · October 16, 2018, 7:48am

Hey, it’s me again, continuing the saga of trying to get this game character’s head that I’ve been working on for seemingly an eternity to work properly. I’ve been meaning to ask for additional help with this matter for a while, but up until now, I kept getting sidetracked working on other models for the game project I’ve been working on.

Anyways, getting away from long intros, since the last time I’ve brought up this particular subject I’ve tried redesigning the topology of the model’s head so that it would work better with a much more simplistic skeletal rig than what I was trying before.

Unfortunately though, I’m still having problems with the head suffering deformation problems when the head is rotated upwards.

Ideally, the head when bent upwards should more resemble this older version of the model shown below, not exactly like this mind you, as long as the head and neck areas maintain a visible divide from one another is all I’m looking to accomplish.

Through the use of Weight Painting I can seemingly fix much of the deformation issues around the top/front area of the head, but it doesn’t seem help at all with fixing the lower area under the “chin”.

I tried adding Loop Cuts to the “chin” area in order to create a crease that would more clearly define the head from the neck, however my efforts thus far have failed to produce the desired result.

I also tried manipulating the geometry while the head was posed in a upward position to create the desired neck crease. This method actually worked while the head was bent upwards, but alas, when the head is returned to its default resting position I ended up with the problem shown below:

I’ve already spent many, many months trying to fix this particular issue and I don’t want to waste more months trying to resolve it. The excessive amount of time that I waste here would be better spent working on other areas of my project, and so I would greatly appreciate any help whatsoever that would drive me closer to finally putting a close on this particular area of my work.

Thanks in advance !

Hungry_Moogle · November 16, 2018, 7:29am

Can anyone help, please? It’s been a month and I haven’t gotten any responses since, and I have still have no idea on how to fix this issue.

I tried adding some extra loop cuts, but it doesn’t seem that much of a difference.

Surely there must be a way of making this work, as I mentioned in my original post when I manipulated geometry while the head was bent up I was able to get the head to resemble the more-or-less desired shape while facing upward.

Alas though, while altering the geometry while the head was bent up fixed the problem I was having, it instead created a new one while the head was resting in its default pose.

I feel like it should be possible for my model’s head to go from this…

…to this…

…but I lack the know-how on how to make it possible, do I need to re-do the topology of the head again and how would loops be arranged for it to work? Do I just need to use loop cuts applied in a smarter manner work, or is there some other mesh fix that I’m not aware of? I just simply have no idea on how to proceed, which is why I desperately ask again for any insight into this matter.

FinalBarrage · November 16, 2018, 7:53am

You’re at the wrong place mate Ive thrown you over to Animation and Rigging.

I think its just a matter of getting the weight paints right. May i ask, why do you want to avoid the crease? It seems natural that the neck would crease when the head is bent down.

Also a tips, dont work on “your game”. I can write an article on why you should never start with 3D hoping to make that “dream game” you first invisioned. It will take too long, you have too much to learn, and when pushing for a game you rush a lot of important steps which leads to poor design, poor results and an eventual burnout.

Hungry_Moogle · November 18, 2018, 9:16am

Unless I’m misinterpreting what you’re saying here, I actually do want a crease under the character’s chin when their head is bent downward. The problem I’m having is that when I try to manipulate the geometry while the head is bent upwards, it causes the area under the chin to collapse inward while the head is in its resting position, as demonstrated in these two screenshots:

The source of the problem, as highlighted by the red circled area in the screenshot below, appears to be that when the head bends upwards, the edges in the area under the chin are being overly stretched and that more vertices are needed in this region to create the desired “crease” area under the chin.

Unfortunately though, for whatever reason adding more edge loops to the circled area doesn’t help in stopping the excessive stretching and my attempts at trying to adjust the Weight Paints values in the area haven’t helped either.

I don’t want to get into a drawn out discussion over this, but suffice to say, I actually chose to do this project primarily as a learning experience first and foremost. Yes, this a “dream” project I’ve wanted to do since as long as I can remember, but ultimately I went this particular project in part because the overall art style I intend to go with is very simplistic in nature, with the bulk of the characters being made up of simple shapes (note that this particular model has no mouth, saving me the effort of having to animate one). I thought this would make a good starting point, beginning with simple characters and objects before attempting more complex designs. The same line of thought also applies to the game design as well, as I chose a 2D platformer for my first project due to the fact that platformers are one of the most basic type of game to make and as such you can easily find a million tutorials for reference, not to mention that Unreal Engine 4 comes with a basic template that can be as a base to expand from once I’ve gotten a good handle of the basics.

I know that this maybe not be the most ideal way of doing things, but it is the way that I prefer go about it. As for burnout, I’m not worried about that in the slightest because for me the act of creation is a like drug. Every time I make even the tiniest amount of progress, the sense of creative accomplishment makes all of the frustrations and hardships I’ve endured seem trivial in comparison, and pushes me forward to getting that next hit of sweet, sweet creative ecstasy.

Ultimately, all I ask is for to people respect my wishes, as I would to others. In part this is due to the fact I really, really don’t like having to write all of this blather. It takes a long time for me write all of this down, time that I feel would be better spent working on something more productive.

FinalBarrage · November 18, 2018, 9:24am

This is exactly what a burnout is, you “drug” yourself numb, and dont feel the desire to progress anymore

Anyways, as long as you are aware, thats the most important.

As to attempt to answer your initial question again, there is one solution, all though i have never looked it up, or tested it out, i know its possible to use shape keys and somehow bind them to the properties of the bones in order to deform the mesh in very specific ways. Most often used for muscle, and face deformation in advanced rigs.

Good luck, this is advanced rigging, but if you dedicate yourself you might figure it out.

Hungry_Moogle · December 14, 2018, 6:43am

Time for a status update on my model’s progress!

Ultimately I decided that the fundamental problem at the core of the all the issues I’ve been having stemmed from starting with a messing base with too many vertices, seemingly making it impossible to make any major structural changes to my model’s head to allow it to bend properly. So I ended up redoing the entire model from scratch, trying to keep main base as simple as possible by using a hexagon as a base for the entire thing.

New model:

Old model:

As a result of the change, the new model’s head can now bend without any of the deformation problems with the area under the chin that had been vexing me for the longest time.

This hopefully marks the end of this particular saga, and I apologize for wasting everyone’s time since I ended up going with a completely different solution than anybody had recommended. Regardless, I still thank anyone who offered help on this matter in the past.