Human Progress

Drivers, with little expressions that add/subtract shapes to/from one another.

All shape keys except for a few bones for the eyes and one for the jaw.

Ok I will need to witness this phenomenon for myself… anyone care to demonstrate? :face_with_monocle:

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It’s not so much the pulling of the lip into the mouth that’s happening voluntarily as it is the contraction of the depressor labii inferioris. Activate that muscle on one side of your face, and your lower lip tips in that direction. The opposite side tilts upward. Then you contract that obicularis oris to bring it home.

I had to look these muscles up btw im not tryna fool anyone lmao

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Yeah that’s what’s being demoed in my video above. The question is whether @BMaverick and @yolao are capable of controlling their Obicularis Oris in such a way that only one side of the lower lip is pulled into the mouth (as opposed to pulling the whole lip inward, and tilting it side to side).

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hey can you reply my pm :joy: :sweat_smile:

I’ll get around to it (there are a lot of technical questions in there… :dizzy_face:).

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Is not a phenomenon at all. The photo that i post earlier show clearly that, even if it´s a bite. Anyways, i don´t have time to search a video that shows that and of course i will not film my self to prove it …, sorry.

Your photo doesn’t show what you described here though, it shows an entirely different action - which leads me to think we may not be quite on the same page.

The process of getting the lip into that position before biting down on it is what I thought you were talking about. I do this by tilting my lower lip to one side and moving it inward. Only then can I bite on the uppermost part of the lip, relax the lip, and form the pose in the photo (the same action I showed in my example above). If you’re suggesting you can get your lip into that position via different means, then that’s what I’m interested in.

I’m not asking you to prove anything, sorry if that’s how it came across. All I’m saying is that if someone is able to articulate their lower lip in the way you or @BMaverick described, then I’ll need to see an example of that to use as reference if there’s any hope of including it in my rig, since I’m physically incapable of doing it myself. :blush:

I can make a push inward lips (lips sucks) of just one side, left or right, but with both lips, upper and lower lips at the same time. I can not do it just the upper or lower at a time.

I hope you can find some good reference of that.
Cheers :slightly_smiling_face:

Is that how you would normally get your lower lip into a position to bite on it, as per the photo though?

I’m having trouble visualising this… let me get my monocle out again. :wink: :face_with_monocle:

If you pull your upper and lower lips in on one side as you describe, what happens to the lips on the other side - do they stay where they are? Is there movement or tilt in any direction other than inwards?

Ok I will need to witness this phenomenon for myself… anyone care to demonstrate?

I don’t really have a way to film myself doing it, but I’ll try to describe it as best I can. When I pull half my lip in (I can only do it on the bottom, not the top) I roll it back about halfway between the middle and the corner, and then it just sorts of slides between my teeth. The middle bit gets caught up on my front teeth, so the part that’s pushed back forms a kind of L shape where it goes out to the part that isn’t pulled back. The part of the lip that’s pulled back just rolls straight back over my bottom teeth, maybe a little bit more of an angle down towards the corner. The other side pretty much stays put, with just a little bit of a bump out about halfway between the middle and the corner and a slight angle up towards the corner of my mouth.

I hope that makes sense, I’m not the best at describing things, especially when it’s something I’ve done my whole life without thinking about it.

Thanks for trying, but I’m having trouble visualising this as well I’m afraid…

Nevertheless:

Does your lower lip tilt to one side while doing this?

Is that after having bitten down on it, or are you still holding your lip in with muscles at this point?

I’m not sure if we can get to the bottom of this without visual references, however in the mean time I’ve been doing some research on the trashier side of Youtube… and every example of a lip bite I could find uses the same initial action I described and demonstrated with the rig above.

So it seems like that photo isn’t doing justice to @yolao’s original enquiry. Is there another expression that involves the lip action in question?

Very slightly. I can feel it happening if I really focus on it, but I doubt whether anyone would be able to see it.

Other than when the middle bit gets caught on the front tooth I don’t really have to bite down on it at all, my lip is between my teeth, but there’s little to no pressure on it from the teeth, other than the single front tooth. The side not going back pushes out after the lip is almost entirely pulled back.

I don’t know. I don’t usually do it as part of any conscious expression, more something that just kind of happens while I’m thinking about something else.

Good luck. :grinning:. I don’t know how’d I’d even start rigging something like that.

Thanks for the details - just to be sure, are you examining this in a mirror, or going by feel?

Some of both. I did it by feel, and then again in the mirror to see what was going on to try to describe it better.

For the Upper and Lower Lips with half push inwards (half lips suck with mouth close).

-Like in a full lips suck (upper-lower lips both sides) i open slightly the jaw but keep my mouth close. I then suck in (left or right) the lips. I can get about 30% pretty much suck in completely. The other side (upper-lower lips) press in and push inwards about 10%.

Since i´m making more pressure in the side where the lips are suck in, there is a more pronounced line expression than in a normal full lips sucks in.

For the Lips suck of just one of the lips (lower lips) right or left.

-I can do the way you described. But the other way i can do it is to open a bit the mouth, then by pulling the oral commisure a bit like in an slightly smile i can push inward that lower lip side about 70% in. That falloff to the center.
The other side will move a little bit to the opposite side, about 5% and the oral commisure will tights up a bit but not as much as the other side that is sucking in.
I also move a bit the jaw to the front, but just slightly.
If i want the left or right side to be more suck in, then i have to bite with my teeth.
The uper lips sucks in a bit like a 10%.

I can not do just the upper lips left or right.

The commissures can be pulled around of course, so maybe that’s the control you’re looking for…? The rest is getting lost in translation though I’m afraid, so if your lip-biting technique differs from the norm, a visual example would be key.

Awesomeness!

I hope you find that visual example :wink:

Well, I already looked, and every example I could find only reaffirms what I said to begin with.

It’s impossible for me to search for an example of something based on a description I don’t understand - that onus would be on the person describing it. :wink:

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Hey Chris,
I’ve been looking into rigging for a while and I’ve been testing alot. I found a seemingly promising method to create realistic human characters. I’m sure you heard about it but it is relatively new to me. It proposes using a muscle based system to simulate body movements procedurally. And it is used ALOT in movies like thanos or captain marvel. I’m really interested in what you think and maybe with enough requests the developers might implement a muscle system into blender. From my tests i haven’t found a decent way to create it but im still trying. You basically have to start with rigging an anatomically accurate skeleton. Then the muscles are modeled over it. Then attachment points are added on the muscles to stick to the skeleton. I am still trying to find a proper way to rig the skeleton like what you did for the human body but I cant find out how you did it. If you or anyone can help it would make my whole week