I'm going through a very difficult time in my life

[JollyJumper]

Hi Polynut, seems like you got a lot of reading to do, as many members of this great community obviously truly care and can relate to your issue.

Therefor I wanna keep it short - and try to steer it in a slightly more specific, work-related direction:

Mastering such a big project as yours completely alone is a huge challenge. I fully understand why you do it. Yet still I wanted to ask you, if you ever reached out to this community for a little practical help?
I’m not talking about finding a business partner. Just a few fellow blender artists who can help you with little bits of your work.

‘Model this’ or ‘texture that’. I guess every help could be welcome.

As I understand, there are many talented people here who use Blender more as a hobby. So they might gladly help…just for the fun of it. And because they care.

[polynut]

Thank Richard for sharing your experience and i can easily relate since i had to cancel another game project with a team of 8 and we all put around 3 years of our life in it and nothing in the whole game project has ever been use or recycle, 8 people with a common dream that went down the drain because of exhaustion and heavy workload without a paycheck.

So after that as you can imagine going the team way was something i was going to avoid.

The problem now with my game is simply because my judgment is not clear my vision is blurred by the complete exhaustion and like a friend told me i am running on reserve fuel!

I am also the kind of guy who worry about other people, in team i was always trying to make sure everyone was happy and i told them all that if i was to become successful with the project then they will all become successful.

To be honest right now if i want i could have use a template and just replace the character, menu, environment assets and i could have a game to sell in 3 month but i am not that kind of person and my game deserved better than this even if i saw a few games done by young folks who did exactly that and they were successful. But of course these games are exact replica of each others with different settings and characters.

I think that currently talking about it is a kind of therapy and i could not have talk about this in my entourage since they don’t have a single clue about what a video game is made off!

Thank again for taking the time to share your experience.

[polynut]

Hi TheSpartan,

I am a 55 years guy who wasted at least 15 years of his life trying to hit that sacred spot where your game become a hit.

I was always very passionate about video games since i played the very first one Pong and i saw the amazing evolution of gaming all these years and one day i was just picking up my favorite video games magazine Joystick at the store and while starting to read it a voice in my head told me i was one day going to make a very successful game!

I know it might sound like a mumbo jumbo story but i am telling it as it is and i was not on drugs or drunk.

At that time i had 0 experience in the gaming field so i went and dive in everything i could put my hand on to learn it.

I am not going to hide the fact that at days i got angry and told myself why have you put yourself in the most difficult path to success? I could have sell models, teach, Youtube channel, work in studio, freelance etc.

The industry need to address this issue asap since many people are sinking in the indie dream and they don’t even know in what they are getting in, life are ruined, family get broken, young people committing suicide, insurmountable debt, bankruptcy. All this for a very slight chance of becoming a hit or to at least recovering the investment put in.

[Jeacom]

I can relate to this, I think you found a place with people who have a very similar history to you.

I also started in the 3D world like you, with the sole intention of making a game, not even to sell it, I just wanted to tell a history to other people, But I aint as strong as you seem, after 3 years of attempts, I gave up. My artistic and coding skills just werent enough for me alone to make a game of the scale I was envisioning, I was finishing school and had to find a work to help my family keep with the bills, I didn’t found and am doing what I can from freelas and sales of my little add-ons.

The history I wanted to tell is still suck inside my head, changing over time, maybe one day I’ll have the resources to get it out in the world, for now I have to at least survive with my family so no time, resources, or way to go for a project like what I envisioned.

I think the only thing us, artists/coders can do in moments like this, is to analyze the situation in the most logical and efficient way we can to take not the route we want but the one we have to, or the risk of mental damage is too high.

[polynut]

Hi Rixtr,

Sorry to hear about your difficult time and like you have said way better than me so many artists are suffering from mental illness and depression issues that it almost look like a pre-requisite to become one!

We are from the same generation so i can see where you are coming from since i was also that little boy who doesn’t fit anywhere, i was always reading fantasy or comic books in my room and in school i had problem with authority and i got expel from school for putting a tum tack on the chair of the history teacher!

So far the thread is helping me a lot simply because i have been isolated in my little room corner that serve me as a bedroom and work room for so many years, it make me feel less alone in the struggle i am in and maybe i was hopping to see other with similar issues so i can relate to.

The whole CG industry is probably one of the most forgotten place when it come to working conditions and people mental health and also the RSI epidemic and one of the main reason is because it is mainly compose of young people that never complain and they are hype because they had work on the latest successful game. The best analogy i can find here is the young truck driver that accept to work for peanuts as long as he can have that shinny red truck!

[polynut]

Hi Jolly,

Yes i am overwhelm by the generosity of the community since i already have 2 people who PM me willing to do work for free or to provide counseling.

Since you all know my experience and story so far you can imagine i will never let somebody work for free since everybody need to pay their bills but what could become a possibility once i am back on my feet is to show my progress by showing gameplay videos and to maybe take the leap of faith again and recruit talented folks to make it happen.

At the current stage my plan since yes i had a solid plan for the whole project was to release the multiplayer part of it to sell 3 type of package let’s call them bronze, silver and gold, they would be sold 5$, 10$ and 20$ to fund the main game that is a 12 chapters single player shooter with a solid and very original HP Lovercraft storyline with shooting mechanic never seen in any game yet making combat experience something no one has ever experience in the video game genre.

Each package come with custom design weapons set(many already done)and each package have exclusive content like the gold package who will have free update for new location put on the map from the single player part as it progress.

The game is made in UE4 and so far mainly on blueprint.

The main gameplay is a mix of Lara Croft early games with ruins and temple exploration with puzzle solving and Epic boss battle like in Dark soul and the whole difficulty level is in the veins of the soul games series.

What i cannot reveal yet is the most interesting part of the story, the setting and time period and believe me it has never been done by anyone yet and i was very surprise no one ever came with this idea. Telling it now would be too risky and for having work in the industry for so many years i know some people could very well use my idea with a team of 50 and release it before i am done.

So as you see the goal was to sell the multiplayer to fund the single player and this way i had something real to sell to people instead of promises of a full game on the basis of a short video and a few pictures like the majority are doing right now.

This way of doing thing is honest toward people and they they don’t get rob from their money and they get a real game and they can have ton of fun for hours with their friends for a mere 5$ with the bronze package, hell you don’t even have a full meal at McDonald with this!

So after launching the multiplayer let’s say it become successful and i would have come here and recruit artists to make the needed assets to finish the single player campaign. Eventually the bigger plan since i want to offer modders a whopping 50% cut was to grab a big chunk of the modding community that i was already part off and to bring them to mod the game to make it last at least for a 5 years cycle and even 10 if lucky. I learn a lot from the Path of Exile strategy for adding new content.

I probably forgot many points to cover but this post is already insanely long so i will end it here.

[polynut]

Hi Jeacom,

Thank for sharing your story since it will not only help me but many others out there currently thinking they are alone in a situation they cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel.

You are doing excellent short learning videos and i have learn a lot from them so i thank you for this.

You sound like someone more careful than i am since i was willing to risk everything including little savings from people i love dearly just to make it happen because they trust me with the project and today i feel bad because of it but it’s too late because i paint myself with them in the corner and the only way out is to succeed!

We all want to become achievers it is force in our psyche by society itself and there is no place left for failure but failure is the path to success!

Everybody matter and our work whatever the genre is inspiring others and sometime in hard time your little short movie will put a smile on the face of someone in despair, your videos will help someone who was struggling with a technical issue, your still image will bring inspiration to others.

I am at a turning point of my life and i know the challenge ahead is not an easy one but it is worth fighting for since dream are the driving force of the human spirit.

[polynut]

The whole purpose of starting the Watch wip was to get something finish since working so many years without any completed project is insanely difficult to cope with.

Completing something that you could classify as a finish project that can show where your skills are at and to be satisfy with the approbation of your fellow artists.

I didn’t have the luxury to do that project and i start to slept away from the game just because i had that urgency to have something finish to be proud of.

3 week went in the Watch so far but i will have to re focus and get back in the game so the watch will have to get conclude soon. I feel bad for not being working on my game but my morale was getting so low that i had to do it.

The Watch was also useful for my game in a way since it made me learn many Blender area i was not yet familiar with like Eevee and the nodes system(A big thank to Secrop my nodes mentor).

This project was also to be the starting base of the BlenderNut channel so i can make tutorials out of it and the channel would have serve me as an easy quick reminder on blender various techniques and to help people coming from other software to migrate toward Blender.

[polynut]

If you are in a similar situation then me please do yourself a favor and watch this short clip

It’s not over until i win!

[Richard_Culver]

Just to play the devils advocate… lol

While I totally get the need to push through barriers. And it is absolutely a key to success, there is more to success than a mantra of “make it to the finish line”. And there is absolutely more to life than that.

In fact it is the process of getting to a goal, that is achievable, that is the happiness of life. A bit clice’ but it is true.

The reverse of this happiness is punishment and pain. And if you look at most punishment for crimes, it is the enforcement of either a long period of time to reach a goal (freedom) or an impossibility of ever reaching that goal (life imprisonment). And we consider time as punishment. The more severe the crime, the more time is added to the sentence.

When you think about it, while prison life might be restrictive of freedom in general, there is no direct pain under normal circumstances. The pain comes through the enforced time and space. You are forced to be in a space for a set time.

For this reason, I see no reason to sentence myself to an impossible and almost unattainable goal.

The opposite to that is to not have any goals at all. Of course.

But it is just more important and fundamental to pick an achievable goal and make a good plan as it is to stick with a plan and a goal.

And I learned that it does not have to be “I gave up” or “I failed”.

It could simply be the truth. The goal was either not achievable or had too long of a runway with too much uncertainty.

If you look around you most people who succeed do so in smaller increments. 1-4 years. Even most people get a degree in 4 years. Longer of course for some professions. But still these are knowable and tangible. Each step can be achieved and you know and can mark your progress through easy to see milestones.

Imagine how the graduation rate would plummet if people did not know how many credits and what the requirements were to graduate, but were left with an open ended seemingly endless goal?

Even progressive “free curriculum” colleges give you tangible credit for time. And you can measure time.

In the professional field mostly people work in smaller steps toward an overall career goal.

Science even, if engaged in long range studies at least secure funding and set themselves smaller milestones of achievement.

But specifically to this topic, it is not all that common that successful creative people work on one project for more than 5 years or a decade.

This is not to say that projects don’t take 10-15 years to get made. In those cases usually the creative people behind it get on with their lives and do other projects that get completed in less time. Then when all things are aligned they take the dream project off the shelf and then put it into motion and project a completion within a few 1-3 years total. Longer at times for some animation or game projects, but not without funding and resources in place.

So yes. Go for it. You can make it. But just make sure you are not trying to carve a hole in a stone wall with a toothpick.

To summarize, successful creative people start out simple and small. And they get a lot of small projects done. And progressively over time achieve more challenging and longer projects.

It is extremely rare to almost non-existent to find successful people who started out with one long and impossible goal.

Just look around and add it up sometime.

[polynut]

Hi Richard,

I had a long time to figure out a lot of thing that could go wrong over the years and there is legion of them that could ruined such a project.

But sometime you have that inner call that say do it whatever the cost or risk. I know i will do it simply because at the stage the project is and that it is impossible that no one will be interest in playing it.

I played so many games that i know what interesting gameplay mean and this concept is really unique in it’s genre.

But i understand your point and i have even been the devil advocate to my own concept way before i start working on it. Everything is a risk in life and sometime the difference between success and failure is that will to take that risk.

What i like about this thread so far is the fact that people also explain their own experience and this is going to help many others to understand the reason behind their issues.

[Richard_Culver]

I totally get it. Because I know how hard it is to advise people. So I see it as more of a discussion. In the end you are the person who has to make those choices. I am just putting out ideas to consider.

One additional thought though. And that is regards to timing.

I would leave open the possibility that you are simply not ready to make certain decisions now. Just be aware that this could change in time.

From here three things can happen. Either you push through and make it, or you push through and realize you are faced with even more impossible time ahead, or you re-direct now and always question if you did the right thing.

At any point along the way, no matter what the decisions is, you have to be certain in your own heart and mind that you made the right decision and never look back.

This is why only you can be your own council on these matters.

And you are right. Many people read these things so you don’t know what information will be a help to others. So it is good overall to just get it out there.

[polynut]

Discussion about indie development and depression should be more prevalent in every CG forum since many are already gone because nobody was listening to them when they were in need.

Isolation from the rest of the world in the relative hope that you are going to be the next big hit in the gaming arena is risky business that most underestimate.

I am well aware that everything can change in my way of seeing the project and also in the way i will proceed next since so far many people are making very good points.

Today i was watching a lot of Youtuber talking about depression and the indie sector and some were very interesting but what is also very real is that each situation is completely unique from another.

I will proceed, this is already clear enough in my mind and in 2 to 3 months i will have a better picture about exactly how much time is needed to have before i can release the multiplayer packages.

From the beginning i also had a plan B just to play safe but applying plan B require approximately the same amount of time that the game currently need so both choice were having a timeline.

I am feeling better a bit tonight and i hope my anxiety will leave me be for awhile because a few days ago i was in a lamentable state.

[ambi]

It’s probably best to get honest feedback from players as soon as possible. That way you can tell if the game has a future or not. I would try to create a vertical slice with the gameplay loop and see how people react. Outside early access release, I don’t know how this would be possible though. What I’m saying is that find ways to get grounded in reality 100% ASAP.

[polynut]

Hi Ambi,

These are good suggestions and i was planning to have gameplay videos in about 3 to 4 month to see the feedback.

Since i am in the industry for quite awhile i also had early feedback by ex colleagues who were really positive about it.

I think the biggest secret in making a game that most people will like to play is to have already play ton of games like i did over the years. What most shooter usually don’t have is an original storyline + an original gun play system. They are almost all the same and it become very repetitive.

Innovations are always good but many aspect of a game can be borrow with great success with a revamp formula.

[Dorro]

Hi Polynut

I can sympathise, I am a 54 year old left handed un-medicated rapid cycling manic depressive introvert with regular bouts of type IV depression living in Nanjing, China (country #7) with my wife. I am an author (seven years into my magnum opus) who dabbles in programming with a bias in 3D and gaming.

First of all and most importantly, good professional unbiased diagnosis from several trusted sources (not the internet) is essential in understanding the physiological basis/bias of your problems. This is not something you can do for yourself. Your brain is physically different from others. No brain is identical to another. Warning, car analogy, you are driving a different marque and model than what most people drive. You need to know what is wrong before you can fix it and knowing what you can’t fix. Knowledge is essential for developing strategies to ameliorate your symptoms.

You need to understand what symptoms are caused by your physiology and what symptoms are caused by external input and subsequent patterning of your thoughts. You need to understand the difference between what symptoms are caused by the wiring of your brain and what acquired thought patterns make you happy/content and productive. For example, big media blasts you with the need to succeed and that you need to declare your status to others in order to be successful, therefore you need to buy and own expensive non-essential stuff to be happy, otherwise you will be punished with misery. Cyclical cognitive dissonance is something you can fix. Material things, in themselves, do not miraculously make you happy.

Get out of your own head. I take long, brisk walks, for exercise, to random destinations. You’ll be surprised how far you can walk in an hour or two. This is not unproductive time, as I often meditate (dream/plan) on my long term projects but take time to smell flowers, admire insects, pet cats, greet or briefly chat with locals (practice my atrocious Chinese, which is now better than my atrocious Arabic), and pay attention to all the details around me to improve my spacial awareness and hopefully improving the plasticity of my brain.

Learn to let go. If there are things (regrets, remorse,memories of shame, debts, insults, things you f*cked up, things you should have done or handled differently) that occupy your mind more than fleetingly and repeatedly, then try doing something, anything practical or possible about it. Apologise, confront, repair, replace, discuss it with friends or a professional, anything to break or change these cyclical runaway trains of thought. The past is gone and should remain there, where it belongs. As much as I fear and hate it, I always try to confront the consequences of my actions, with an absolute minimum of procrastination. Wasted thought is a waste of time. Learning to live in the moment is more important than dwelling on the past. The future will write itself, based on what you do now.

This has bearing on your feelings of being indebted to others. Try to remember that this support was an act of kindness given freely by people who love you, whether financial or otherwise, and has no expectation of return. It is an act that is past. Give the love back, be kind, considerate, listen and remain open to the needs of the ones that love you, that you love. That they have someone to rely on, without judgement and expectations, is priceless. There are many ways you can pay back these kindnesses that are better and more important than money.

Small things are important too. I live in an apartment seven minutes walk from my wife’s place of work. My wife works very hard, so I do all the cleaning, washing, shopping and cooking so that she has as much free time as possible. I have managed to wrangle about 20 square metres of horizontal growing space, outside all my windows. I grow herbs, vegetables and flowers utilising as much vertical space as I can. You would be shocked at how much stuff I manage to grow. I also propagate and pot house plants.

Learn to live as efficiently and effectively as possible. I have developed habits and interests that save me time and money. If have managed to reduce the amount of time I spend on the above chores and my plants to around an hour a day. I also use this time for planning while I do these mindless but surprisingly satisfying mundane tasks. Using a bit of forethought, the right tools and techniques, I have learnt to cook delicious (lots of fresh herbs), healthy , cost effective food with a minimum of time and wastage, generally around twenty minutes now. I cannot stress enough the importance of good food, both for health and well-being. Jamie Oliver’s 30 Minute Meals was a great inspiration. People love my food, which in turn makes me happy.

Small acts of kindness. I give the fruits of my labours to my loved ones, friends and neighbours as often as I can. This is something the Chinese embrace enthusiastically, makes people happy and is very rewarding emotionally. It is apparently something built into our DNA and rewards most people with a flood of endorphins. Humans need a sense of community and connections to others to remain healthy.

Creativity and understanding requires a lot of thought. Proper planning and forethought makes you efficient. Staring at your computer, writing code by sheer force of will is not productive. I think deeply about my writing while washing the dishes, grubbing around in my plants or simply enjoying a decent cup of coffee and then dash off reams of prose when I am inspired and know what I’m going to say. The same with programming. Most of my bug fixes come to me when I’m not staring at the offending piece of code. You can do most of your thinking while your hands are busy with simpler tasks that are their own reward. Any obtainable long term objective is a series of successfully completed smaller tasks. Inspiration often comes to me after a good night’s sleep.

I will leave you with one of my favourite quotes, a Bene Gesserit Litany…

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” ― Frank Herbert, Chronicles of Dune

[polynut]

Hi Dorro and thank you very much for this wonderful post that arrive when i am at my lowest. Today was a really really bad day, every little thing that usually make me happy are not making me happy anymore.
Making dinner is like a chore and i don’t feel like eating much.

Trying to focus is simply not possible currently and anxiety level are through the roof.

Probably thing look worst because i am all alone and i have no friend to talk to, i go on Youtube and then i saw a video about not giving up and the darn video end up to be as usual a religion thing and i don’t believe in that sort of thing anymore.

I just took a heavy dose of kava kava to lower down my anxiety level so it is going to get better in a few minutes, this is a natural product that help release anxiety.

I start watching the blender conference but i couldn’t not focus on the content so i stop watching right after Ton finish speaking. I am so happy for him to see his dream come true after so many years of hard work, he is truly an inspiration.

To be honest today everything i do seem like an insurmountable task and i should force myself to go to bed but for some reason i am wandering on the cold corridor of the internet to find a little ray of hope.

I wish to you and your wife the very best and keep us inform about your magnum opus.

[Dorro]

Hi Polynut

Sorry to hear that. You really need to get out of your routines. You need to get out of your head. You need to do something else, something new, anything. You need to get out of the house. You need to talk to someone, anyone, in person, in another location. Not maybe, not later, but now. Go for a walk somewhere you have never been, steal some flowers and give them to your mum. Go drink a cup of coffee with a friend. The internet is not your friend. Take a pencil and paper, go and find something interesting somewhere else and sketch it, throw the drawing away and do it again. Go to the zoo and watch an animal move around. Go fishing. Do some maintenance on your bike and go for a ride. Go surfing. Phone everyone you know and ask if there is anything you can do to help and do it, whether it’s painting their house, cleaning their pond, walking their dog, baby sitting their kids or washing their car. I love interacting with young children, they are fascinating and their outlook on life is breath of fresh air. Take a pot, matches and fixings, go foraging, make a fire and make something to eat. Phone nearby charities, youth organisations, old age homes, volunteer you time and go help. Organise a camping trip with friends, sleep in the bush.

The inside of your head is not a good place to be when you are trying to break the cycle of depression…

[Richard_Culver]

lol… That post right there, is probably the best, and well written I might say, advice I have ever heard anyone give over the internet. Well done!

[Leonard_Siebeneicher]

I understand your suffer. I am worried about whats going on.

It is very difficult to find a way to milden financial situation. Is there a solution which does not sacrifice your authentic goals just to ‘function’? Is there an alternative way to lessen financial burden, which does not depend on make a living with games? I mean, something which helps to lessen the burden (games have to be successful!), which helps to leave the all-or-nothing situation.

If possible, it would be an idea to cultivate relaxing. Distancing from game project for one day wont harm. Walking, trying something outside routine. Love your dears. Your projects need attention, true. But, if you are obsessed to be successful, this might be rather damaging to your forcus and distracts you from your project.

I hope, you find a way to loosen the knot.
Good luck.