Ehm… i did not want to get into this (not an expert)… but i think you dont understand. I will tell you what ‘i’ have understood.
Two quantum systems are entangled - they are either produced to be in a linked quantum state or interact with each other to become so. The ‘systems’ can be photons/electrons/superconducting rings oO. But their quantum states are ‘linked’
The particles are ‘transported’ physically - photons by optical fibre i guess
If you read/disturb/measure one particle you ‘force’ it to ‘collapse’ to a certain state
But the entanglement means that both particles share the same state -> the ‘other’ particle gets disturbed/collapsed too This effect is instant and verified to be much faster than light. But no surprises there as i dont think anyone expected anything different.
To ‘send’ a message its instant, but you have to setup entangled systems - the bits - on both ends ready for transmission. Once read the bits are ‘destroyed’ no more bits for you (did you remember to bring more bits to reply?) May be you need a ‘wire’ to get more ‘fresh’ bits?
The problem with faster than light communication?
You wont have “ding! you have a message from your friend!!!”. You have to read your quantum bit to find out if you got any message. But wait, if you read it and your friend did not send a message… your wire just got cut… (see point 5) May be your friend can call you and say… “hey! i sent you a message!” but how will he send that message?.. at the speed of light obviously So… yea.
Now there may be other ways to do it by cloning quantum bits or some complicated stuff… but its really something people have not done and i dont think anyone is sure about it. Thats why the ‘may’ in my statement
Thats all beside the fact that quantum systems are delicate and easily disturbed but i dont think its anything we cant reach with better technology.
Disclaimer: Im not an expert. Definitely not government spy or something :p. There is a lot you can find out by reading from ‘real’ sources. Please correct me if you think i am wrong! It helps all of us improve our knowledge
EDIT: sorry if the post sounds rude, it was midnight 1:00 when i wrote it
The entangled particles do not travel. Each guy has one particle in a cage. Then you change for example the magnetic spin in one and the other changes. You can use that to transmit a binary message, and this binary message can be a movie, or live TV feed. And it is instantaneous even if you are transmitting from Earth to some planet in another Galaxy billions of light years far.
Particles in the atomic level do “magic”: appear and disappear, can be in several places at same time, can be “entangled”, can be created “from nothing”. These “new laws of physics” when understood will change everything. Well, they are just in the first steps in the correct direction. And all will change.
Just a small reminder about the transfer of information at speeds faster than light. From the video Bao2 posted: “People sometimes think that quantum entanglement will achieve the desired goal of transferring information at a speed faster than that of light. I don’t think this will be achieved, because to set up these systems you had to have brought them there at speeds slower than the speed of light. But then what do I know, a hundred years ago they didn’t think we’d be going to the moon.”
Morio, It is like I explained. And that documentary explained it (to my surprise) as it is. That the truth is put that way for the people is not common way of doing.
I say you another one you will wait some years to know about: there are six forces in physics. We know only 4 (strong, weak, electromagnetic, gravitational). The unified field theory Einstein tried to achieve was solved some years after his death. And that formula gives you the ability to use “magic”. When all this technology comes out it will revolutionize all because all the actual technology is prehistoric compared to that.
I am curious what name will be given to the new two forces. I can say you where we will find them: In the center of the galaxies. Just now you are said it is a black hole in the center. No: there is a pusher and a puller there. We will see what names will be given to these two forces…
Hmm i think you still dont understand. The ‘effect’ is instant and it is indeed faster than speed of light. The problem is, once you collapse a quantum bit to a state, by ‘reading’ it (or ‘measuring’ it as they say…), you will have permanently changed it. If you read it again, you will get what you have read last time. The entanglement has ended and the particles are no longer linked. You will need freshly entangled bits for the next transmission which should be taken to its destination (reciever). This can only happen at speed of light.
Now the ‘actual’ problem i think is with the communication. You try to read message from your friend (As i said, you wont get ‘ding! alert!!!’ you have to read it to check). But you read it and you get -
A coin flip (random choice of some state) because your friend didnt send any bits!
Or
Your friends ‘sent’ bit.
But how can you be sure your friend sent it?
You cant. He has to tell you if he sent some ‘message’ or not.
That is, you only ‘read’ the message with confidence when he has informed you that he sent it (at speed of light max ofc).
Now stop playing with those quantum bits! you are going to break the communication system If you read it, you not only disturb your bit, you also disturb your friends bit (they are entangled right :)) and you will need fresh bits for transmission again.
anurag: So you think two entangled particles are so delicate that you do something on them and they break and so…
What makes two particles to be “entangled”, how can one be doing same/opposite that is being done to the other?
Because they are not different particles. It is bilocation. Entanglement is a particle that is in two different places, but not at the same time, but consecutively, once here once there, again here and again there… The number of changes is 1 divided between Plank constant: billions of times per second.
Hmm, i am already at the limits of my understanding :p. I think no one knows how the particles act like that (remember someone said that no one understands quantum mechanics lol). However, there are two particles (photons/electrons/entire atoms oO watever). The so called weirdness is that you cant be sure which state a quantum system it is in. You can only describe it in a probabilistic manner. That is 50/50 chance its in spin up or spin down or watever state. But, you can ‘measure’ it and what do you get? Just one of the possibilities. Then on, the particle, whenever you measure it, it will always return the same answer. It has been ‘collapsed’. So what do you get after measuring an entangled pair? - a collapsed pair ofc. Then on, there is no longer any ‘link’. We just kicked them into some state and they move on as usual (unless you somehow put them into weird states again).
Now the bilocation thingy sounds cool, but i dont think that is how it works. Because if its the same particle, it will always behave like one like you said. I dont think people observed that in experiments. But if you have any source saying that two entangled particles are like linked for life or something, please pass on the link.
To the best of my knowledge, entangled particles come out of a process such that, for example, you ‘know’ they are going to be the opposite/same, but which is which you cant tell(a.k.a the quantum ‘weirdness’), until you measure it that is. This is the ‘being in all states at once’ effect. But not just entangled particles, this is the same with any particle so long as you dont ‘measure’ it. I also know that there are many interpretations of this behaviour and i dont think any one is ‘really really’ sure what to make of it.
Weirdness means that they do things like teleportation, bilocation, and other weirdness. The thing about “you cannot measure because the measuring changes the position” is just a way of not telling the truth: the truth is that an electron don’t travel in a circular orbit around the nucleus, but appears and disappears in a “cloud” of probable places. Did you see the cymatics videos in youtube where sand takes geometry shapes when a frequency of sound is applied to a metal sheet? Electrons adjust their positions in the same way. All that exists is energy vibrating. There is no other thing than energy vibrating. And a better name for energy is “consciousness” because all has consciousness and is affected by consciousness. There are experiments about that where the experimenter “asks” for subparticles to do something and they do it. Mind over matter! Weirdness!
“People” have observed it in experiments from the time of Einstein. This year in my country 75 millions will be given to a lot of scientists. I don’t remember anything in all my life that came from such institution. What are they doing? Can you think why after almost 70 years we continue with same rocket technology? With same oil cars? With transmitting info using wires? Transmitting electricity using wires?
Why is not induction used to transmit electricity to cars? Because everyone can thief the electricity. You can’t control it. So we are kept in a world of wires, with prehistoric technology. Oil is used instead using the heat in the ground as is done in Iceland. You simply do a hole in the ground in an area of “hot waters” and you can enter a “U” pipe that heats water and converts it in gaseous state that then moves for free and forever a motor to create electricity. That is only done in the country that put in jail the bankers: iceland. The rest of the world has areas with these hot grounds and don’t use them, they prefer oil because is taxable and keep control is easier.
I didn’t want to join this conversation, I already find it quite preposterous in many regards. I read quite some stuff about quantum physics and I just don’t get it. And no one else here either.
No you can’t.
Think if it as a telephone line. Each time you talk you can transmit one letter and the pulse is so powerful that the line just vaporizes and you have to lay a new line for the next letter and you have no way of finding out if it was the right letter that arrived.
You can change the state of the receiver by changing the senders, but you can’t read the result properly and not without breaking their entanglement.
While it is correct that entangled particles do not need to travel to transmit their state you have to entangle them somehow first by transmitting their state - however that’s done.
The particles have a non physical link on a subatomic level. that’s the entanglement. This entanglement is not bound to any speed, it’s beyond the speed of light. However entangled particles can no longer be described as individual particles with defined states, they can only be described as system.
While the superposition state of an entangled system (you cannot describe the state of the system with the states of its subsystems) can interact with the state of an entangled system, you cannot transmit information, on one hand because every measurement in a quantum system is probabilistic and not causal, and secondly due to the no-cloning-theorem, which says that it is impossible to build a quantum system in which every qubit copies another one without changing the original one, which do not allow any sort of classical error correction.
So as far as I grasp it in “human” terms:
Yes, you could transmit a binary message of one bit, however you have no idea if the recipient gets the right bit. The closer you look if it’s right, the higher the probability that the result is not correct, and as soon as you look, the sender changes.
Also you would have to entangle the “bits” first.
So you need a “line” that’s at most the speed of the light to entangle the bits. Then the “receiver” has at any time the same state as the “sender”. As soon as you read the state at the receiver the probability that it is wrong raises the more accurately you try to read it and the entanglement is broken so you can’t look if it was right anymore and you have to re-entangle them.
There’s a reason why Anton Zeilinger and other leading quantum physicists try to “transmit” information for decades now and only had a first success in 2004 transmitting the polarization over 600m. HE needed a fiber optics cable and was “limited” to the speed of light. (look up quantumteleportation)
And that’s only the start of the problems that are beyond our comprehension…
Beyond that, I think stuff like supercomputers that can simulate quantum computers are essential.
Pretty much every algorithm, error correction, protocol and paradigm we currently use in software development is worthless to a quantum computer. A simulated quantum computer however allows first R&D into this field. When we get the first actually usable quantum computers they would be rather useless without software - and while there are none around, just R&D with a simulator. Who cares if it’s only a fraction of the speed of the real thing.
Can you link to any paper or news report or watever that says, entangled particles are ‘entangled for life’? To the best of my knowledge, the particles (any particle whether entangled or not) are in some ‘weird’ state (im simplifying it here, just like ppl in the videos do) where they can only be described probabilistically (and you know the probabilities ofc). But you can ‘measure’ them and ‘collapse’ them into some state. Then on it will be in that state (unless its disturbed by something else ofcourse). Sorry, if you want to believe bilocation thingy i cant really say anything.
Special note regarding:
>> the truth is that an electron don’t travel in a circular orbit around the nucleus.
Are you kidding? did you take a science class? It was said in my 10th standard that electrons dont spin in circular orbits (After describing the previous theories like rutherfords model describing planet like motion lol.) I do agree that the description of ‘spinnin like planets’ sticks in your head for quite some time. I did not ‘get it’ immediately, it took some time (years?) to sink in. But they are described as electron ‘clouds’ in the textbook for gods sake. There is no mystery there! Then in 11th/12th watever you call it in your country (we say its ‘intermediate’ class here :p), there is discussion about the dual - particle and wave - nature of both light and matter. So i know they sound ‘woah cool!’ to people not familiar with it (No offense - some biology concepts sound ‘woah cool’ to me, but im sure ppl learn it early on and its really just scratching the surface), but really, its textbook stuff.
When ‘consciousness’ enters into the picture, its usually someone (wildly) interpreting things. I dont want to be rude, but it just sets ‘nonsense alert’ bells ringing in my head.
Im sorry? lasers? transistors? the computer you are typing stuff on? They materialized out of thin air i guess. Its not like some single great ‘science superman’ comes along and discovers everything. Lots of people, you know like me and you, but who are interested in sciences make small and steady progress. People build upon each others work (Standing on shoulders of giants oO). We are now (actually, from quite a while ago) able to manipulate single atoms. Actually we are making stop motion animations by arranging single atoms lol. So when will i get my single atom transistors? who knows? Just because you can make a timelapse vid using atoms, you cant manufacture atom scale systems at ‘industrial’ scales. Science doesn’t just go from breakthrough to breakthrough. There is a LOT of work in between. Lots of silly stupid stuff like ‘actually trying out all the stuff’. Some times luck will get you a great discovery, sometimes its lots of planning. Besides where do you train people to become good scientists? In universities, by spending money on them and on their ‘research’ even if its just some ‘simple stuff’.
Regarding the last paragraph. Now i dont disagree that our ‘dear’ governments always work day and night for our well being (sarcasm). But i can also make up fantasy stories and im not sure how anyone will think its correct? especially coming from random people on the net?
There are many constraints for bringing any technology to wide use. Some are possible easily, some require someone to take risks (a.k.a economic risks. Yes i know, greedy people) and some are just not there yet.
Wow thats a long post… sorry about that
Note: My post is addressing Bao. The post by Arexma popped up after i submitted mine lol
Note 2: By ‘we’ i mean the human race in general, not that i am doing it in my house (incase that wasnt clear :p)
Last experiment I heard about they doing it was like 8 months ago. And of course they didn’t said it ws instantaneous, I don’t know if because the news guy didn’t understood or if the scientists told him in such words that the guy was unable to understand it.
And yes, is already technology used. Not for the masses. We are kept using oil and copper wires. And that is same technology than 100 years ago. After electricity “age” comes magnetic “age” (that one is kept hidden). And after magnetic “age” comes quantum “age”. And after quantum age comes cystal age. They are actually something advanced in the quantum thing. Remember the youtube videos of quantum experiments are done by private enterprise, a genius that, as he said in the video I posted, knew working for the government would never make him achieve their goal. And everybody comes with a goal. Everyone. And nothing can stop you of achieving your goal. Nothing. This guy will force to the hidden patents to show or they risk the guy to do the patents. Interesting years ahead. The quantum computer will be in 2 years here. Artificial intelligence “with soul” will be in 10 years. They will use one chakra. It suffices one.
But of course, you understand why I don’t want to talk about this. I will not answer any question. We are not in the right times yet. Let pass some more months.
That is not entanglement, that seems some device from ACME company or something… Entangled particles used to communication don’t disappear. I wonder why you don’t say also that qbits disappear and so a quantum computer is imposible. Or when a medium channels a message also his neurons disappear. All that is quantum “weirdness”.
Imagine it is bilocation. Weird eh? Someone said that those that are not blow up about quantum weirdness is because they didn’t understood it.
Eight months ago a message was transmitted from a country to another by “youtube scientists” (those scientists not paid to keep silence).
Of course this technology is being used from some years after Einstein death. Unified field theory was achieved some motnhs after Einstein death. And that formula explain all you want to do with the Universe. Including time. We know 4 forces: two in subatomic level (weak and strong), two in planetary level (electromagnetic and gravity) and we lacked the two forces to finish the Unified field theory. These two new forces are galaxy level. They are in the center of each galaxy for example, because there is not a black hole there but a pair of these forces, you could call them the pusher and the puller. And they work pushing and pulling things on dimensions. Again, these things are kept hidden from the people. You can say we are kept in prehiistoric times compared to the real science that is “pure magic”.
There is not breaking of the entanglement while being used to transmit info. But don’t expect them to say in a documentary the whole thing. It is hidden knowledge believe you or not they already have it working.
Do you think for some casual in all these years they already achieved that? Or these 100 years we are just obsesioned with oil motors and the millions and millions each country uses in hidden science is just trying to achieve a better oil motor?
That is already done.
How is done?
Entanglement is making one particle bilocate. So you need to make all the particles bilocate. You need to have a entangled particle in each of the positions A and B and “read” the state of the entangled particle then copy to the thing you want to teleport. Then it bilocates and you break the bilocation in the other side. You need a quantum computer to manage the whole thing, a normal computer is unable.
And studying this “magic” they understood space doesn’t exist at all.
Is like in a 3D game: you see the characters walking a virtual world but those wonderful landscapes and such don’t exist at all. Is just all a simulation.
Did you remember some scientist saying in some documentary or TV program if we live in a simulation?
The word is not correct because we understand by simulation something like a 3D game, and obviously the reality you see around you “can’t be a simulation”. Well, wait for teleportation to be here and watch how the comprension of our reality is explained in a very different way.
Glad you know about the weirdness. Other people think subatomic particles travel as planets around the Sun. They don’t understand they appear and disappear, usually near their last position, but not necessarily. And that can be modified.
I like to think about subparticles as vortex. Imagine water in a sink. It goes in vortex and it disappears in this side and appears in a vortex in “the other side” again. Then in the other side the vortex collapses and appears here as a vortex of energy again. That is for me particles and that is how they enter in and out of our reality/dimension.
When things vibrate there is some areas where they can rest. Look at youtube videos and you see the sand in a vibrating metallic plate resting in the places for every sound tone they use appearing as geometry drawings. That is similar to what happens with the electron orbits, they just appear where “you can rest”.
There are quantum experiments where this was demonstrated. Is like all things obey consciousness. And yes, is that way.
All the technology about the influencing of magnetic fields changing in high frequencies is suppressed. And that does things like:
Antigravity
Melting of metals
Teleportation
For example Nikola Tesla had the roof full of impacts of metal balls that were floating and then accelerated impacting on the roof of his room. He tried to control the antigravity but lacked computers, necessary to control it with precision. This magnetic “age” we have being keep of enjoying. But well if you feel fine having computers (from the seventies, just only a little smaller now) you can write a letter and send to Rockefeller for example.
The real deal is creating them. You take light, “frozen” it and create subparticles. Then place the subparticles to create objects. That requires obviously a quantum computer too.
Obama doesn’t have the security level to enter in some underground bases. So who controls then the country?
You can see Obama laughing when he is asked about UFOs, then I posted in another thread a former minister of Defense of Canada (and in UK there is another guy too) that say they are real. Then why the laughs? Do you feel better hearing a laugh or you get angry because they don’t tell a truth? Why people don’t get angry when they are not said the truth?
I get angry when someone doesn’t say the truth, and I don’t forget as people do. If you forget you give up. I like to say once and again about his hiding of truth, and that creates a snow ball effect and each day more people will want the same. And then one day the sufficient number of people is bored of being lied and change happens.
Is not sad to live in a world where we don’t know anymore when something is truth even if presenting the fact in mass media? That is the goal, to bring such thing down.
I see life as this: you are in a planet and food and shelter and access to knowledge is not something you must to work for, it is a must. You must contribute to society for it. Just now the richness of the planet is in a little 1% of people. They receive the money controlling things like banks (that are pyramidal schemes that each x years are brought down and the money is devaluated and then again a new cycle begins) controlling every business. For example you only have to look all the people receiving money of the huge military complex of USA. That and all the intelligence services are just parasites of the society.
Then you have a society where all the business are created by the 1% and if they don’t want to create more business you have people without jobs. And all goes worse and worse in a planned collapsing.
In a normal world, there would be a looking of the necessities and business would be created to satisfy the necesiities of the people, not just relying that some rich creates the business, but a planned resolving of the problems.
This is “communist” mentality and “don’t work as was demonstrated by Russia or China”. Well, they had dictadures, Rusia continues having one with Putin as the dictator, China the same. There was not yet one country having such thing. All of them had dictators that then put laws to avoid changing if people didn’t liked it. Same in cuba, same in Venezuela. Same everywhere, where instead socialism, there was dictators. I think that is going to change and probably some technology will avoid what happened in the past. Because for example you can see how Internet is now used to quickly demonstrate when mass media is lying, an exposing the lies. That tool was not there, and transparency and truth is essential if you want to achieve a society without casts (because USA and all are casts societies like India, you can call it capitalism, but it is just casts, and you have your untouchable (homeless and people living in the undergrounds of some cities there too). What a world eh? Weird too!
I thought you were the Pope or some King. Damn it.
Are you being deliberately stupid to troll?
For the last time, and different people here already told you - maybe in easy short sentences:
The entanglement disappears, not the particles - obviously.
The entanglement also does not disappear after a “transmission” - every state change is “transmitted” instantaneously.
The entanglement disappears as soon as you observe (read) the transmission.
That’s why they use optic lines, bound to the speed of light, to re-entangle the particles after a “readout”.
I don’t know if it’s worth arguing with Bao2, the way he writes his posts gives the impression of a claim that he’s in continual contact with an academy of ‘divine knowledge’ and thus would speak as if he knows everything about everything (including about science, spirituality, and the future) and there’s nothing else for him to learn.
He even does this type of thing in Blender development news (making an assumption about how the code works and then treating it as fact), and indeed, he seems to give me the impression of someone with a divinity complex (ie.a being of much higher knowledge than even the greatest of professors and physicists). but that’s just my opinion.
Ugh, just read through this thread out of morbid curiosity. Zalamander on the first page is correct. The second video I posted above by the end he explains why Quantum Computers won’t replace current computers, if anyone is interested.
Particles are entangled using magnetic fields. Not optic lines.
At least the entanglement I am speacking of, the one that creates a bilocation. Is like the Philadelphia experiment.
(did you remember to bring more bits to reply?) May be you need a ‘wire’ to get more ‘fresh’ bits?