The big Blender Sculpt Mode thread (Part 1)

The task is starting by a paragraph about removing classification of brushes by tools.

But if you take a look to second paragraph about Global Brush Palette and Brush Switching ; you should be reassured that the goal is to give a quick access to favorite brushes.

Their discussion is in favor of asset browser instead of toolbar.
But that should not scare you.
At the end, the resulting workspace should be as satisfying.

Toolbar is available when editor is in maximized view.
But using asset-browser for that does not imply to refactor toolbar basics.

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Subdiv level selection and brush parameters should be grouped on the same panel, without the need to switch on the property editor

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Currently, you don’t have to switch to Property Editor.
There are Ctrl 0, Ctrl 1, Ctrl2, etc… and Page Up/Page Down shortcuts for that.

These operators could probably be added to Sculpt Menu or a pie menu.

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Face Set gestures tools

Lasso and box operators for face sets.
https://developer.blender.org/rBc05715b03fe7b82d63ab4339f4fa1dac9884aad1

Face Set Extract Operator

Mask and extract geometry directly to a new object.
https://developer.blender.org/rBafb43b881cc3d036aba9ab7a2b1ec5e91f745eaa

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If those were accessible right in the sidebar (N region), along with brush properties, that would be dope. Hopefully we can soon drag panels in the sidebar from anywhere in the UI. I saw some commits in the logs about instancing panels…

The description in the task detail makes it sound like if there is only one main brush tool you will lose any ephemeral brush setting changes each time you switch back and forth between brushes. Because the only way to switch “tools” is actually to overwrite the current tool settings with a different saved preset because there are no longer separate brush tools, just a library of brush presets for a single tool. That’s why I’m nervous. Because my workflow involves making a lot of temporary tweaks to the different brush tools without saving most of them as presets (because most of the time the changes are not important enough to warrant cluttering up a brush library with dozens of presets). But I still need to be able to switch between the tools while they each have their temporary settings.

Say you make some temporary changes to your current brush in the new system. Let’s say you change the strength of the standard Draw brush tool and load an alpha texture. If you switch to a different tool (like a Clay Strips or Knife Cut), and then switch back to Draw, then your temporary changes to Draw are gone? The dev task is unclear about what happens here but it sounds like you’ll lose the temp changes because you’re switching presets on 1 tool, not switching between different tools that both retain their current settings.

We all know that brush management in Blender needs some serious improvement but collapsing all of the tools into one tool sounds like a terrible idea. Obviously we can’t keep adding half a dozen tools to the toolbar at every major Blender release either but at the very least I would expect 2 or 3 tools per “category” (the current toolbar icon grouping colors of Blue, Orange-ish, and Yellow) to remain on the toolbar. And then, as with Photoshop, you have your preset manager that lets us organize and save/load brush presets for those 6 to 10-ish tools.

-Edit- Actually, forget what I said about the 2 to 3 tools per icon color category. Instead, imagine the toolbar has a number of “slots” (like, 10, as an example) and the user can choose which brush or brush preset goes into each slot. They can load their most commonly used brushes or presets there (fantastic!). If they make temporary changes to any of those then they don’t lose them when switching between the brush slots. This is like Photoshop. The only time you lose your temporary brush modifications is if you load a different preset into a particular slot.

I think your fears are pretty unfounded. With other art programs like Photoshop you are perfectly able to change a bunch of settings like size, opacity, spacing, rotation, etc. without affecting the base settings of your brushes from one session to the next unless you start manually changing them in the brush properties panel. Same with ZBrush. I seriously doubt you would lose out on anything important here in Blender from switching to what is a pretty standard system for brush management across the board.

I think you are completely missing the point here. See my above comment. Also, the whole point of having good brush management is so that you can create every type of brush imaginable, including texture brushes, and then save them in a well managed list. Having to manually attach textures to your brushes every time when you could have just stored them inside your brush pack is just way more practical (why would you even create a texture brush and then throw it away as a temporary use?). Besides, it is not like it is impossible to create a very specific standard texture brush whose sole purpose is to grab whatever texture you have on your PC and nothing else. Just make a feature request if you want that.

But that is not what is happening. They want to collapse the vast majority of brushes into a single tool, not all the tools. Stuff like masking, trimming, transform gizmos, etc. will more than likely not be in this new single brush tool as you describe, since they are not brushes (except for Mask Brush, but you could make it work somehow). Your suggestion of dividing them up into the currently available colours is not what I call a good system. It serves no practical purpose while working.

What would have a practical purpose however is dividing certain tools up into specific keyboard modifier categories like ctrl and shift. Ctrl can have all the masking, boolean, and face set tools where you can switch out what tool is active on the ctrl key when using the regular brush tool. This is how ZBrush does it and it is great for workflow. Also being able to decide what brush settings you have when alt brushing could be done in a single tool brush management system by customising each brush you make. I.e. alt brushing having a different falloff than regular brushing, etc.

I don’t like your slots system either. Just giving people the entire brush list with sorted orders and folders to put them into categories would be more than enough to pick whatever brush you want. In Photoshop you also have a latest used brush history feature on R click along with the whole brush list, so using the left toolbar for that purpose is just a waste of space.

No, you completely missed my point. I’m not talking about brush management within a single tool I’m talking about multiple tools. You’re talking about loading presets in a single tool, I am talking about a multiple-tool workflow. The example of Photoshop undermines, not strengthens, your position.

Photoshop has 14 tools that utilize the brush system (Brush, Pencil, Mixer Brush, Clone Stamp, Pattern Stamp, History Brush, Art History Brush, Eraser, Blur, Sharpen, Smudge, Dodge, Burn, Sponge). That’s more than “one or a couple”.

Every single one of those 14 tools in Photoshop can independently load, tweak, and retain its own brush settings with or without saving them as a preset that goes in the ‘brush manager’ and you don’t lose any temporary changes to the settings whenever you want to switch back and forth between tools, only if you’re changing presets on the same tool. What you do to the Eraser tool’s brush settings has no bearing on what happens to the Smudge tool’s brush settings because they are separate tools, not one tool that loads an erase preset or a smudge preset or a pencil preset.

If you had to redo your brush settings or load a new preset each time you switched from the Brush tool to the Eraser tool in Photoshop would you call that a good system? :tired_face: Or from the Mixer Brush tool to the regular Brush tool or Pencil tool? People would be demanding Adobe’s heads on a pike. There is value in having separate tools that retain their own settings and that can independently load presets from the brush manager.

My position is that the concept of e.g. a Cut tool is fundamentally separate from a Scrape tool (regardless of the back-end code implementation) because of their fundamentally different behavior and you shouldn’t be forced to overwrite your settings with some sort of presets-only system when switching from one to the other. That’s precisely why there should be multiple brush “tools” in the toolbar so that you can tweak the settings of each in minor ways without affecting the other. If you want to reuse those settings at a future date, or if you have less frequently used presets, you can keep those in your brush library (which, again, is something we agree that Blender needs) and load them when needed so that we don’t end up with toolbar bloat.

I did not say people should have to manually attach a texture every time, just that not every single tweak needs to be saved into its own brush preset. It was simply one random example out of hundreds of possible examples of a temporary tweak one might do while working. :wink:

Presets are for important things you will be using across many sculpting projects over time. A small tweak doesn’t reach that level of importance but it will be a papercut problem if you can’t switch tools and keep that temporary change during a session if you want to, say, do a Clay Strips stroke with some temp settings and then a Scrape stroke to change a shape and then go back to Clay Strips again but lose those temp Clay Strips settings in the process. If you want to switch back and forth between brushes but you lose your settings every time then every tweak has to be saved in a preset and you will end up with hundreds of garbage presets in your brush library.

Poor phrasing on my part. I only meant the “brush” type tools. I’m aware that the other tools like gestures, transform, etc. aren’t proposed to be collapsed.

And one edit later I disavowed that idea entirely in favor of a more flexible idea that is agnostic as to what goes in the toolbar. :roll_eyes:

Another way to think of “slots” is as a Quick Favorites of brushes in the toolbar. In this way you could actually go ahead and collapse the brush tools into one tool and then instantiate it where each “instance” on the toolbar operates independently of any others; they’re the same collapsed tool but each instance can load its own preset from the brush manager/library without affecting the other instances. But because these are your favorites you won’t have to hit the brush manager to dig through your full library as often.

Again, not what I’m talking about. You’re talking about how one loads presets in a single tool, I am talking about a multiple-tool workflow. One where you can hotkey (or toolbar click) from tool to tool, not “Bring up your full brush library, pick a brush. Bring up your full brush library, pick a brush.” on a single tool. You are talking about a workflow within one tool, I am talking about a workflow within several tools.

What Blender needs is a better way of loading and managing presets, not to throw out the tool system. I am opposed to making the toolbar a superfluous UI element. Collapsing all of the brushes into one tool is throwing out the baby (the good aspects of having a toolbar) with the bathwater (reducing/eliminating toolbar bloat) unless we can add/subtract our own “tools” (aka brushes, aka brush presets) to that toolbar like a Quick Favorites.

If we only have brushes as tools (Blender right now) the logical end state is that the toolbar is going to become more and more bloated as each brush gets its own icon in the toolbar.

If we only have one collapsed brush tool then the logical end state is that we lose the ability to make temporary changes on different tools independently from one another and will be forced to dump small brush changes into the brush library as their own presets, overwhelming the library with cruft.

We need a harmonious middle ground with a great brush library/manager and a customizeable toolbar that can hold multiple “tools” (or instances) that can be modified independently from one another.

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I’m not sure what’s going on on that task, but can’t they just make it work like in zbrush and call it a day???

No reason to over complicate things…

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A promising new version of Autoremesher will be released soon.

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The daily Windows alpha builds are delayed again. No new build since september 1st. It’d be great if Sergey or someone else could have a structured look at the returning builder issue(s). I’ve dropped a message about it at Blender.chat and Twitter.

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Hi, error fixed and the new 2.91 alpha build is up.

CHeers, mib

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In the design task, pablo is offering to rename current sculpt tools : Deformer Types.
And sculpt vertex paint tools should be renamed Sculpt Paint Types.

And that way, a sculpt brush should become able to sculpt and paint at same time.

So, pablo will create another brush engine system. Anyways, that was the goal of his proposal when he said he would create node brushes.

Pablo is a sculptor. He is demoing features, he creates.
I don’t think he could underestimate the pain caused by a switch between presets that would not preserve something as basic as a temporary radius adjustment.

That task will take months of development work. And during those months, many people will test them. So, there is no reason to fear an official blender release that would forget that.

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JF Matheu (a.k.a. Pablo’s lost twin brother :wink:) is developing a Krita-style icon-based pie menu for Sculpt Mode:

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yeah i saw that too, i love this kind of pie menu…

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I guess I’m the only one who’s not a fan of pie menus… :smile:

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Yup. You’re the only one. Everyone else loves pie.

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That’s what I thought… :frowning_face:

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Don’t worry. Someday, someone will make cake graphs. Then it’ll be your time to shine.

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I have to say I’m still quite content with my own custom Sculpt Mode pie menus, created using the fabulous Pie Menu Editor.

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