Seriously, in the job section there are tons of volunteer works like someone decides to make a short film or a video game and just post a job notice recurring people for free, says you can make a portfolio and gain some experience!!
They make a profit out of your labor and you get nothing
This is like “volunteer slavery” since most artists can’t find a job and it is a saturated field unfortunately and some people cleverly misuse this situation
4 Likes
Yeah, you’re entirely correct. Anyone who knows anything about artistic labor knows better than to volunteer for these things. On the other hand, they seem to get lots of volunteers from middle school/high school-age users who are relatively new to artistic labor and like the idea of being part of something. As long as it’s upfront that you’re not getting paid, you aren’t getting hurt (except by your own choice), so… that’s on you 
No they don’t. The vast majority of the volunteer projects are abandoned in a few weeks. I am not aware of a single example that made a single dollar in profit
5 Likes
I’m seeing this a lot even in person!!
or let me pay you in shares of this company (that kinda still don’t exist) that are worth (an amount calculated based on that person wishful thinking).
for me it translate to :
hey I got this idea that I want to gamble with, who wants to invest in my gambling.
5 Likes
In 99% of the cases, there is no profit in low budget indie short films or video games. I will go as far as saying there is no profit in low budget feature films either.
I can practically guarantee you that anyone seeking volunteer help with their project will make no money from the endeavor.
On the other hand, I will also point out that many artists out there need a structure coming from someone else to do anything. They are simply not suited to self-motivate themselves into creating some cool art. I know several people who are solid artists, but who are simply incapable of accomplishing much until someone directs them.
There is also a positive element to collaboration. Working with other people, even for free, can bring creative possibilities that wouldn’t be present when just sitting in your room by yourself.
I always say this – I want everyone that I work with to be compensated in a way that works for them, but the compensation doesn’t necessarily have to be monetary.
6 Likes
Well, it really depends on the project… Personally I worked on a few projects for free when I was self-learning CG. But it was more with people I met IRL.
These projects are tough especially because you aren’t paid, you are not experienced a lot and very likely working for people without much experience as well ( generally speaking) …
But anyway, I won’t regret it since I learned a lot getting out of my comfort zone , and eventually most of these projects made good portfolio pieces. It’s also the opportunity to try some stuff. For instance I did a few VFX on live movie, so I had the opportunity to go to a film set and play with good images I would have a hard time making myself. This helped me later to find paid job on that field too.
But IMO there is a clear separation with commercial projects. You’ll see that it’s really hard to succeed a commercial project by having people working for free.
First 99% of the time you work with junior artist so it’s quite risky. It’s also quite risky that they need to make a living elsewhere, so say you need to change something during the day, it’s very likely that the artist is working elsewhere and you’ll have to wait for the weekend to get your change done, and this propagate to the rest of the team since they might depend on that change for instance.
So in the end it adds a lot of delay to the schedule, and it’s nearly impossible to sustain that with a real client who expect a pro team and a responsive feedback.
Finally, as artist this is really something you should do for yourself. You like the project, or you see that as an opportunity to make progress then that might be a fair deal. If it’s just to do something while waiting for paid opportunities, then it’s better to refuse and focus on perfecting your porffolio on your own.
7 Likes
Depending on the team involved, for hobbyists or students looking to work in the industry these projects can be a great learning tool and introduction to working in a pipeline with signoff gates, asset sheets, deadlines, art lead, etc.
But again, this will entirely depend on the team in question. You would have to be working with people who know how a pipeline and dev process works. Otherwise, it’s the blind leading the blind and a waste of time. 
5 Likes
From the fan artist perspective, I second that half the volunteer work is from middle-high school age people lol.
In my experience, making a profit or getting exposure is often very last thing on their mind. They simply want something cool to look at and know you have the capabilities of making that thing, so they ask. At most it just comes off as a very specific request with no concerns about the workload or your benefits in doing. Just the basic assumption that “you like making art? now make this please :DDDD.”
3 Likes
Some are honest and mean no harm. Others seek to take advantage of you. Their goal may be income, improper help with school projects, prestige (look what I did except you did it not them), who knows but they smell of fraud or deception.
I see two structures needed. The creative and the procedural. The procedural is what Musashidan wrote of and including a command hierarchy. The creative one is the imaginative part, story, characters, style. This brings imagination and production together to accomplish the goal.
The only experience I have:
https://blenderartists.org/t/on-going-3d-short-movie/1265125/2
The creative structure was not in place. I expected everyone to participate in continuing development of the imaginative part but that is not everyone’s talent.
1 Like
Yes, but this will all be worked out in advance in a pipeline project. Unless of course the artist is brought onto the team specifically to write the story, and/or design the characters and worldbuild/concept art.
I suppose these sorts of projects are primarily the brainchild or passion project of the creators of the team, and they are purely looking for 3D artists/animators to bring the project to reality.
Being brought on as a modeler/texture artist/animator/etc, all concept art/shots/art style is already in place so there’s not much room for pure creativity.
2 Likes
Well, from my experience it’s very unlikely that people succeed in scamming people by asking help for free.
What is more likely is people who have no experience in movie making or animation, that want to start their own project and ask for help. Eventually they get overwhelmed by the task and the project silently fail…
As a comparison, when a commercial production is launched it’s quite rare that it gets cancelled, it might turn out bad but I’d say 95% of the time the project is finished.
Volunteer project are the exact opposite, it’s more like 5% of them that end up being finished.
To succeed a project need a pretty experienced leader, or at least they should have a good formation in CG, storytelling , directing and such. Needless to say they should have good team management and social skills, to keep the team motivated so they stay with you.
Finally, it’s very likely that as the leader of the project, you’ll end up doing like 50 or 70% of the work by yourself. and people from the team are probably going to manage to do 10 or 5% of the workload.
On top of that, since everyone is working on their free time, you’ll face a pretty long production time, with all the issue that can append, like software updates, turnover in your team, and all the issue that can arise in your life during ~1/3 years.
When looking to participate to a volunteer project, you should check first how the project is, do they have a good story, concepts, can they show you clearly how the project is going to look like, or do they have a good porfolio at least ?
If not, I suggest you run away…
To really scam people it’s much better to pretend you’re going to pay them, so it’s more in paid jobs that you probably should check if people are trying to take advantage of you. But in the meantime, especially if it’s a big project it’s nearly impossible to succeed in the long run if the team is changing regularly…
Sorry for the long post, but I hope that helps to put more perspective to these volunteer projects !
5 Likes
Agreed. The creative/imagination part is first. Exactly where my project failed. The creative “structure” was not present for the CG/animators/etc. to know what to build. First is dreaming then comes doing.
If you wrote Alien then the modelers and animators have a different task than if you wrote Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death. That is how the creative part is “structure”. Then the structure of technical matters and management accomplishes the task.
For real movies the producer, among many other things, finds a story or idea and turns it into a movie script. He often works with writers and other creatives to do that. Then the director, cast, and crew are hired.
1 Like
The part of my post you quoted is not about the chance of success of scams or of projects but is about the motives of those wanting volunteer work.
I agree that most of these scams will fail. Also agree with your analysis of project failure and causes.
1 Like
Of course. With a solid story/characters/concept art/worldbuilding/storyboard all in place then the actual 3D art process is the easy part.
And that’s why 95% of these projects fail, because the initial excitement rushes or skips these essential foundational building blocks and the project quickly devolves into a confused mess that stagnates and dies.
the other 5% that succeed are generally a one-man band and originator of the idea who just pushes on through to completion on sheer determination and will.
1 Like
Good artist doesnt sit without work. If some artist are unable to find a job, or make passive income by selling models its only meant what those artist are actually doesnt have good hard skills, or if he has, he lask of soft skills.
How? Theres zero chance what good artist will make some volunteer models for free simply because he wasnt being able to find job right now after few days of searching.
That is interesting topic. In my case I always pay when giving out job. What frustrates me is that even with paid jobs external freelancers deliver 80% percent of the result. And I had to touch up the project to some degree.
Or they do not want to use specific tools in the pipeline, or have to beg them to finish the job in time, or they don’t like that you are the middle man and client is third party…
In case the project keeps evolving further from the briefing and client keeps iterating it is even more difficult to keep external guys in the loop.
So I came to realization that if you have a studio it is better to just hire full-time artist, let’s say mid-junior, and he has to do what you tell him. And learn, find solutions, and deliver.
Define a “good artist”?
You can ask artists and probably most of them say making money out of art is very hard compare to other fields, especially digital art which AI dominating it
You can be an average Plummer or a taxi driver who just know how to drive and still make a living but there are very good artists that started a Youtube channel instead of doing art
Activision Blizzard just cut off 1900 staff of its workspace, all of them were bad artists?!
1 Like
Its pretty the same as definition of any kind of professional for almost any regular area (except science, as example, where solving certain task can took years or entire live without ideal results, like complitely solving problem and answering misteries of universe)
In general: professional (“good artist”) are the person who can provide valuable result with specific amount of time and solve the task.
Would not try to imagine anything and will take the last one person i was speak to. He makes approx x3-4 times more money than not an average but try-hard taxi driver in his country. No chance he will say something like “I wish i become taxi driver one day and finally start to live a happy live”.
First of all: all those 1900 staff was hired once in blizzard. I bet >50% of them was previously have a job in other well payed positions in other companies.
Second: who told you what from now on all those 1900 sitting without new jobs?
And at last: the fact what someone got fired doesn’t mean what it was bad employee.
Its less-to-none chance what you will be fired if you a programmer wizard who can solve serious task and help to close million becks deals for a company. Does it works like that for 3d artists? I dont think so, but it doesnt prove your position at all.
What about people who never had a chance to get the experience necessary to become a “good artist”?
Between people from Blizz, Riot and others there’s A LOT of people out there looking for work right now. People with insane portfolios and years of experience.
Other companies do have some open positions, but there’s only so many they can provide. And then no one can be sure that they are not expecting lay-offs next week, because these came out of nowhere.
So what people with no experience and no prospects are to do?
1 Like
You have no idea what you’re talking about if you believe this to be true, but I do admire your highly optimistic outlook and hope you don’t have to go through the school of hard knocks anytime soon.
The first time I was ever laid off, it was from a marketing job where i had increased the ROI on ads by 166%, increased the email list by 61%, increased email open rates by 40%, and ultimately saved the company from going bankrupt. My reward? The entire marketing department getting sacked and replaced with a team half the size, who could get paid less because they could use my processes and not have to innovate anything. Don’t talk so confidently about things you know nothing about
1 Like
I have a close friend who are IT guy in finance sector. Once he get a 4 month fully payed vacations because “i was tired, i dont wanna do anything, i want look some netflix serie”. No one thinking about fired him. After few month after those vacation he get promoted for more higher position with higher income.
He have a lot af awsome stories about their co-workers playing the same role of kind of a crybaby who still work there and get great income. Why? Because their work are really valuable for the company.
Marketing != the area which i specifically described as “a programmer wizard who can solve serious task and help to close million becks deals for a company”.
I don’t think you brought millions into your company and were a truly valuable employe.
Can you show me any post or maybe video on youtube where people with really “insane portfolio” and “years of expirience” are speaking about the problem what their try to find a job a few months? Something like “look i was in charge of doing this awsome art in whose awsome game/movie/anything”, i was working with those great company and those cool director and now im in the line of poverty?
Because i bet if something like that would happen, it will pe speakid somewhere. It would be some post on reddit or something.
I dunno. Nothing? Why you ask me?