Human Progress

[ChrisJones]

Thanks @dan2, if I understand correctly, does that add-on do something like using bones to deform the mesh and baking the results to shape keys? If there’s something that can preserve volume while modelling I think that might be the most helpful.

I’ll ponder those other ideas as well (forgot there was a distortion overlay!).

@GloriaTheAnimat I’m barely scratching the surface… imagine what somebody who knows what they’re doing could do!

@yolao I’m trying to avoid correctives where possible, but if necessary that will probably be the way to go (if I can get an expression that works). Are you using multires for the shapes there by the way?

[yolao]

@ChrisJones

I’m trying to avoid correctives where possible, but if necessary that will probably be the way to go (if I can get an expression that works).

Why are you trying to avoid corrective shapes of shape combinations?.. AFAIK is what Gollum face rig used for the LOTR trilogy. And regarding the mesh, is just subdivided several times, so no multires or subd modifier.

You can see an example of combination of shapes here with BCS plugin for maya.

[ChrisJones]

Because it keeps it simpler and easier to manage/maintain, possibly improves performance (although I’m yet to notice any slowdown, even with over 200 of them…), and keeps the file size to a minimum.

My old Lightwave version had corrective shapes all over the place, but I’ve removed the need for them so far by overriding shapes (as per the post above), and just by being more accurate, which was nigh on impossible before due to LW’s split Modeler/Layout.

[dan2 (dan)]

@ChrisJones

if I understand correctly, does that add-on do something like using bones to deform the mesh and baking the results to shape keys?

Yes, it’s a quick and convenient way of adding non destructive manipulators that can be easily edited and keyed. Really good for obvious non linear shapes like lipFunneler for example.

I’ve seen a lot of solutions for volume preservation, but results can be unpredictable or hard to control at times, especially when combined with collision type rigs for the inner mouth or skin sliding in the brow area, muscle bulging when opening the jaw, etc. A lot of times shapes are getting exported and processed for volume preservation with some convoluted region maps, but more often than not it’s a tradeoff. I don’t know if anything like this exists for Blender though, or even off the shelf.

@yolao

AFAIK is what Gollum face rig used for the LOTR trilogy.

Weta is using facial rigs that are mostly blendshape based. I’ve never seen any other company relying so heavily on blendshapes and trying to minimize the use of deformers. It’s a matter of personal preferences though. I like the solutions Chris is using - That eye setup alone he was showing a while ago would be 150+ sculpted combined shapes in Weta land.

[ChrisJones]

I was just thinking in terms of preserving the volume during the modelling process and locking that into the shape keys, but come to think of it if I could do that, then it might as well be applied to the whole model after the fact.

[dan2 (dan)]

Best thing you can do to get a clean set of shapes is to take 5 sets from different characters with consistent keylines, blend them together, 0.2 each and bake out the set to rebuild a rig. It’s great to give you a generic base to work on, that can be transferred to any character. Any less than 5 and you still have stray deltas, any more and you loose details like nasolabial folds and liplines.

And with so many scan FACS sets available in online stores nowadays, using optical flow in wrap3 to process the whole bunch doesn’t even take that long. (also, that way volume preservation wouldn’t be an issue since you’re working with captured data)

[ChrisJones]

I might run into licensing issues if I did that, since I’d be redistributing… otherwise it sounds like a fine idea.

[dan2 (dan)]

Technically most of the have business/r&d or commercial licenses, might grow into a bigger investment though that way. Your approach seems to be working though, it’s just a lifetime of laziness that keeps me looking for the simplest solutions. Working in production you’d get a deadline of a day or two to make a facial rig, pretty much all you can do is to get creative.

Seeing your process is really inspiring by the way, great to see the progress and the solutions.

[ChrisJones]

More than volume preservation, the appeal of scans would be the authenticity of a base mesh that’s averaged from actual people (ideally hundreds of them). That’d definitely require some hefty investment though.

I’m hoping if I manually hack away at the model for long enough it will eventually converge to the same result anyway.

[Amith (Ak)]

Well done I trying to do something like this

[3DArtGuy]

Now that i tried to also make a realistic human like i said the work is even more impressive. To be honest i am looking forward to the animation updates of your human.
Have you tried look alike sculpts?

My human looks currently to clean and i have to get him in the shape of a real men… =D
Have you used specific brushes for the skin detail?

[yolao]

@ChrisJones

Because it keeps it simpler and easier to manage/maintain, possibly improves performance (although I’m yet to notice any slowdown, even with over 200 of them…), and keeps the file size to a minimum.

My old Lightwave version had corrective shapes all over the place, but I’ve removed the need for them so far by overriding shapes (as per the post above), and just by being more accurate, which was nigh on impossible before due to LW’s split Modeler/Layout.

Whatever technique you choose to use, i´m sure the result will always be fantastic. Thanks for sharing all the process.

[L0Lock]

@3DArtGuy

My human looks currently to clean and i have to get him in the shape of a real men… =D

Do you mean by that, you need to prevent him from taking showers for a few weeks?

[3DArtGuy]

@L0Lock

Do you mean by that, you need to prevent him from taking showers for a few weeks?

Yes, he has a baby face… Here to have a better picture of it.

[Dondeed]

relatively new to the rigging part of blender and 2.8 itself (computer has been unavailable the last few months) and I’m having a small issue where when I delete the armature the model deforms massively. At first I thought it was an apply to rotation, location etc but it’s still happening. Would anyone be willing to help a fella out and tell me what I’m forgetting to do please.

[dllb]

Beginner advice here, risk of being partially, or totally wrong (I’ve forgotten a lot of stuff after a 7 - year break):

Such issues usually happen due to constraints.
So, try to remove the constraints first, incl. “child off”, then do the alt+g, alt+r, alt+s, then delete the armature.

[dllb]

@ ChrisJones

Awesome and inspiring work, congrats!

First, I saw your videos on YouTube, the one with the semi-face and “Ed”, then I found you here!

I’m almost on the same boat (…a perfectionist too).
Personally, I prefer realistic-looking CGI characters over Disney-like ones, because the later have a huge disadvantage that few people realize:

Whatever facial expression those characters make, no matter how “perfect”, and no matter how great they look, they cause almost zero emotions and empathy to humans, because they look too fake and distant from human nature. So, all emotions are caused exclusively from what they do.

Realistic humans on the other hand, (or realistic-looking ones in my case), can cause strong emotions, almost by their facial expressions alone, like humans.
Of course, in order for that to work, near-perfection is required, or clever rigging and animation that prevents expressions, or visual elements that fall into the uncanny valley (facial + body-language / posture + actual rendering).

In my case, I’m not an artist, but I’m trying to make a few characters for a game project (realtime), so I have to go over a lot of hurdles, artistic, modeling, game-design, programming, music etc (I’m currently rigging an eye).

So I’m glad I found your work, your success is an inspiration for me and proof of what is feasible.

[yolao]

Hi Chris.

I wanted to know if your Universal Human can perform a wide range of positions of the arms and legs and still have good deformations for animations with out having to make an sculpting fix afterwards.

For example take a look at this pictures and tell me please how the rig deformations will perform in this positions for the arms and legs.

Thanks

[ChrisJones]

@Dondeed Assuming you want to keep the deformation caused by the armature, did you try selecting the model and applying the Armature modifier before deleting it?

Thanks @dllb, I think you’re right about cartoon characters’ faces being less emotive; their main appeal is their style and simplicity, which comes at the expense of some expressive nuance. And while perfectionism isn’t necessary for bringing a cartoon character to life, it’s practically mandatory for a realistic human. Just to summarise.

@yolao It can’t do them perfectly - it has the most trouble with the first image (the upper arm penetrates the chest unless the shoulder is rotated forward, which doesn’t quite achieve the same pose) and the last one, which causes some misshaping of the hip. I could probably fix the latter with an additional corrective shape, but as mentioned I’m trying to avoid overreliance on them for now. The other ones have some minor volume loss, penetration etc, so some sculping may be necessary for the more extreme poses.

It can do this without disappearing too far inside itself though…!

[yolao]

@ChrisJones

@yolao It can’t do them perfectly - it has the most trouble with the first image (the upper arm penetrates the chest unless the shoulder is rotated forward, which doesn’t quite achieve the same pose) and the last one, which causes some misshaping of the hip. I could probably fix the latter with an additional corrective shape, but as mentioned I’m trying to avoid overreliance on them for now. The other ones have some minor volume loss, penetration etc, so some sculping may be necessary for the more extreme poses.

Hi Chris, can you please post images (or video) of those poses where penetration happens. Even though the base mesh of your Universal Human is fantastic, my main interest to buy it is for check out and investigate how do you achieve the rig deformations.

So i will like to know how far did you go in the deformations area to see if i could buy the Universal Human or not.

Thanks