New icons for Blender 2.8

idea

(moony) #3074

Yep - and that is exactly the point with the arguments around the floppy icon. It doesn’t really matter how it was derived, what physical tech it represents or how outdated that tech now is.

The point is - people associate the floppy icon with the save function because it is so widely used in that capacity.

Many icons are pretty arbitrary when you get down to it. They have just been adopted to have a certain meaning and we continue to use them to this day.

Who decided a cross X should mean close window - but it does and now most programs with windows based interfaces utilise it (including Blender) because everybody understands that what it means.

We could of course decide that the cross isn’t the best representation of the close action and implement something else instead - but to what end? Who would it benefit?

Yes changing the floppy icon to something else isn’t a big deal in the grand scheme and people would get used to it - but why go out of the way specifically to make Blender different to 90%+ of sofware in existence.

I thought the idea was to make Blender more accessible and mainstream - but stuff like this simply makes it appear more niche and inaccessible than it should.


(wolfmanyoda) #3075

But if you follow that train of thought to the end blender will not evolve past the other programs if we’re afraid to do something that other software doesn’t do. Blender shouldn’t aim to be a competitor, blender should aim to rule, and that can’t happen if we worry what they do.

Little things can matter, and maybe people will look at it and say “wow, they replaced the old floppy with an SD card, that’s pretty cool.”

But, well, you know, that’s just, like, my opinion man.


(wolfmanyoda) #3076

You know, forget what I said. Blender is probably not going to rule.

Over the years I’ve watched release after release and every time people gush over how Blender will take over the market this time. Almost as zealous as Linux fans going on about taking over the world from Windows.

Sorry, but it doesn’t matter how shiny, fast, and stable Blender can become, the big studios have insane amounts of money invested in their workflow and that is a major change that they will not want to even consider. Nope, for Blender to knock out the big boys it would take Autodesk to really screw it’s customers over. Way more than they do now, it would take a massive mistake from AD for Blender to hit mainstream.


(moony) #3077

Not at all. Change can be a good thing if there is a clear and justifiable benefit.

Nobody is advocating no change - but change for change sake is rarely a good thing and that appears to be what is going on here.

I have worked in software development and currently work in a role which is heavily involved in change management and experience this type of thing day in and day out.


(William) #3078

Yes, you are right.


#3079

Or maybe…
sntl


(FinalBarrage) #3080

Why not complain about lack of icon for Load Factory Settings, External Data, Save Copy/Save as, Recover last session.

Why is the Save icon the only one of importance?


(moony) #3081

“Floppy drive”…really :roll_eyes:

If you did a poll of 1000 computer users - how many do you honestly think would say “floppy drive”. I haven’t seen a floppy drive either in my home computer or a work computer for perhaps a decade or more.

The “3d printed save icon” meme exists for a reason…

The icon with a down arrow is much more suggesting of “download” to me, especially given the similarity with icons already in existence and the increasing move to web/cloud based computing.

Do you think that your reply here is more than a little biased, especially given you have already revealed you think the floppy icon is incorrect as you aren’t saving to actual floppies.

One of the important things with design is to factor in how other people would see and interact with your design, rather than just projecting and implementing your own thoughts.


(FinalBarrage) #3082

im 22 and havent even seen a ploppy drive :stuck_out_tongue:


#3083

also, however, the outline of a file ending with the arrow seems to me like the file is self-referencing, and could also mean ‘Reload’ or ‘Revert’… such misunderstanding could let you loose all your work… so why to take the risk?


(FinalBarrage) #3084

Alright lets check out how other programs does it…

Zbrush
image

Photoshop
image

Unreal Engine
image

Maya
image

I sense a pattern :thinking:


(moony) #3085

I too have been looking through programs and there appears to be two distinct camps.

  1. Programs that don’t have a save icon at all and either just have a plain button with “Save” written on it or reference a keyboard shortcut in the menu (like some of those examples above - Maya and Unreal do actually have save icons on their respective tool bars). Some examples I have found include:
  • Photoshop CS5
  • Google Earth
  • Audacity
  • VLC Media Player
  • Deep Sky Stacker
  • Autostakkert
  • Registax 6
  • MSI Afterburner
  • VirtualDub
  • Photomatix Pro
  • Picassa 3
  • Modo
  • Lightwave
  1. Programs that do have an icon for save on a toolbar or in the menu. Some examples:
  • Sketchup
  • MS Word/Excel/Powerpoint etc
  • Adobe Acrobat Reader
  • Cognex Insight Explorer (professional optical character recognition software)
  • GIMP 2.8
  • Meshlab
  • Openoffice Calc/Draw/Writer etc
  • Inkscape
  • Snipping Tool
  • Sculptris
  • Terragen
  • Cinema 4d
  • 3Ds Max
  • Substance Designer/Painter
  • Maya
  • Unreal Engine
  • EON Vue
  • Visual SFM

Out of all the programs that I have found which do use an icon, aside from Blender which uses a tick, I have yet to find a single other example of a program using an icon to represent save that is anything other than a floppy disk.


(Lsscpp) #3086

Well, this clearly shows that a decision is already taken and no polls no effort to explain will change it. Take note and propose the cooler icon you can think of, or maybe sponsor the icon removal if you will


(Hadriscus) #3087

The save command is used frequently and has a destructive effect ie it overwrites an existing file (unless it’s a first save). That I think warrants caution and justifies highlighting it a bit more. Furthermore in 2.8 saving no longer pops up a confirmation dialog, so that’s reason for additional care in the signaletics, if anything.

On the other hand, load factory settings is not done frequently. Maybe by tutorial creators ? Same goes for recover last session. Those are seldom used hence the lesser need for a way to recognize them at a glance. I agree that save as should use a variation on the save icon though. And maybe external data ? I personally wouldn’t bother.


(FinalBarrage) #3088

Thats where the incredible Blend1 file comes inn :wink:
So no worries.

Or rebind it to Save Copy if you’re ultra paranoid. I tend to move things to trash layers instead of deleting things so i always overwrite my save files, and im never worried that i’ll lose my work. And so far, ive been doing great.

Neither is File > Save. I actually open users preference more frequently that i click that save button, and im disapointed that CTRL+Alt+U no longer works in 2.80 with no option to rebind it (at least i didnt find it).

Those who save often use the hotkey. And if your previous argument is of any concerns to them, then they will bind Save Copy instead.

And on a side note, its not like we need an icon to find the save button. I instinctively look for the 4 letters “Save” when trying to save, cause thats what im used to from most other programs.
I’ve used blender for 6 years soon, and to be honest, until it was brought up here, i didnt even know we had an icon next to Save.


(FinalBarrage) #3089

Also just an off topic thing i wanna mention. Stuff like “Save File”, and “Quit Program”, which are bound to CTRL+Q, CTRL+S, and in blender 2.79 i think CTRL+W or Shift W was also in this list.

These hotkeys should always be disabled in my opinion. These keys are easy to press, so they can be freed up for other more important tools, and they are too easy to missclick.

I use F2 and F4 for Quit and “Save As”. But where you put it is up to you. Just keep it away from WASD :stuck_out_tongue:


(ogonek) #3090

still there at my place

for the record: I like the floppy disk as save icon the best, but the other options are ok too. I will probably continue using blender even with out a floppy disk icon. Maybe.


(Hadriscus) #3091

The blend1 is indeed a nice idea, I haven’t been using that enough. However the layer workaround is… unworkable with Blender. Scenes get heavy quick, and the undo system becomes unresponsive. It’s ok for the simplest assets, but not for more complex scenes.

Neither is File > Save. I actually open users preference more frequently that i click that save button, and im disapointed that CTRL+Alt+U no longer works in 2.80 with no option to rebind it (at least i didnt find it).

You’re absolutely right, that’s not what I meant : take the case when you do open that menu > what should be visible in there, what should be brought to attention ? That’s my reasoning here.

Agreed that ctrl+w and ctrl+q should not be bound to such actions as closing the program. I sometimes switch to qwerty keyboards when I go work in London and I invariably spend the first few days closing Maya when I want to undo (ctrl+z/ctrl+w).


(FinalBarrage) #3092


What its not there for me? Maybe i need to update. Anyways im glad to hear this!


(ogonek) #3093

I guess i just right clicked on the menu entry and added a shortcut there